A week or so ago, I saw this disturbing story on the news, where a woman was charged with murder because doctors are alleging that she refused a C-section that would have saved the life of one of her unborn twins and that resulted in one of her twins to die. They said that she refused it because of vanity, stating to them that she didnt want a scar that comes along with a Cesarean birth. Now the woman is denying all charges and makes a point that she already had 2 other kids in that same method, why deny a third? She's suspected of being mentally insane, and that she never wanted any of her other kids, and doctors are usuing that idea into persecuting her and charging her with murder in the state of Utah. Now the q is, was she entitled to say no to a Csection if she thought both her kids would live or are doctors right in charging her with murder if she knowingly chose not to give her child the right to live. Or is this merely a witch hunt knowing that Utah is a hardcore mormon state. Also, there's also this new wave where many women actually choose to schedule a Csection, because they don't want to go through the pain of childbirth. Are they missing out of a bonding experience or is it their right to choose how they deliver their kids? Peace

Hibo, I disagree, i don't think it's out of reach as you think, if all ppl were pessimistic or doubtful, how then can change come about if everyone cries "Utopia"? Like i said, one can only hope, may or may not come true, but as long as u do ur part in tryin' to establish a better society for those after us, then the rest is up to God. Many ppl always thought new ideas were too good to be true, but society as a whole has come a long way and as long as ppl are open minded, change won't be as hard or painful as it may have been in the past. As to ur q to CM "If our perfect Prophet made it acceptable for a woman to take on the lead, why has the society changed that? And if we are as good muslims as u claim then what happened to that practice of the Prophet or the Muslim men take just those practices that superioritize them." Thats' because to some extent, somali society has strayed from the path of Islam when it does not coincide with their previous traditions and culture, regardless of what their religion now Islam says. For ex., i've seen it first hand when a woman is married to a younger man, certain ppl shaking their head and not approving b/c as the saying goes, a woman needs a strong man and if he's younger then she may very well lead him. The horror! :eek: Peace

"So this leaves us with one question, will the generations following us be similar to us or will the roles be switched?" I think the generations after us, with our guidance, will be more of an egalitarian society, and will be better at coping with the challenges of the 21st century better, when it comes to the home, education, deen, etc. One can only hope! All boils down to how what the parents teach their kids and what values they instill in them, and that can only benefit the society as a whole. p.s.- indegenious societies b4 the advent of the colonialists, were largely seen as egalitarian, where there were clear sexual division of labor, and to some extent, what we may now call a role reversal, where often the woman was the hunter as well as the gatherer. Whether the woman or man hunted, at the end of the day, the fruit gathered and the meat that was hunted was shared with the whole community, leading to a harmonious and strong society. Peace

Zarinaz, well said.

I think its such a slavery mentality, to want to look like your oppressor...i can understand afro-americans wantin to have straight hair and being light, but somalis? where did they get the concept that light is better? from arabs? or previous colonizers such as the brits and italians? dont wanna accuse any particular ethnicity.. Like many of you, i too have heard many ladies discussing the light vs dark matter, basically stating that when one is light, no beauty is missing from them, and a dark girl isn't up to par on the beauty scale. How can a so-called islamic society practice discrimination? Boogles the mind. Anyways, its up to this generation, when they are having kids, to not reinforce those stereotypes, and teach their daughters and sons, that beauty isnt always found on the surface, and that it is not determined by a color or shade. p.s.-i propose an anti-diana protest. Any girls who have it, pls, dump it in ur nearest sewer, cause i cant seem the benefit of looking like a multi-colored person and casper the ghost.

LOL Nafta...i think the whole idea of bikini waxing scares me, let alone, contemplating letting a woman do it, but if u must trim those unruly sights..lol...might as well let a woman do it, what's the alternative, a man? Yikes! Princess_Sexy, and any other sistas that want to tone up their whole body as well as losing the excess baggage on problem areas such as the waist, thighs and butt,the best all around physical machine you can use is a treadmill, which will help tone and at the same time trim inches off ur whole body, including the stomach. Its the #1 most effective fat blaster machine/exercise u can do. If ud like to get results within the next 6-8 weeks, try to do it 4-5 times a week, 30-45 min, running at intervals or walking briskly. Join a gym or just walk outside fast, enough to break a sweat. p.s.-whether one is skinny or not, excercise is still important to boost ur metabolism and make u feel better, especially at stressful times, like exams, when a bit of running will help u take off some steam. Don't forget to cut out the unnecessary calories, such as coke, which contributes to a belly, and bloating. Peace

Darman, Qasim Amin is widely known as the father of feminism and a liberator of women's rights in Egypt, at the end of the nineteenth to the early 20th century. He called for the emancipation of the woman and to reinstitute the rights that were granted to them by Islam. His first book on this subject was " The Liberation of woman and the new woman". He advocated for the importance of educating the woman, because without her, society won't progress fully. A lil' short history on him, if ud like more info, u can read more about him in his books.

UD, just like you said you'd prefer to marry a young gal and not an "old hag" in her 40's, so to is my preference for not marrying a farax without some sort of nest egg of financial security, or job in mind. There is no set dollars of when u will be ready, thats all psychological and emotional readiness, which you can't put a price on, its all about the individual own time. U said trust ur man to provide for u, etc...of course you won't marry someone who is unable to fulfill their half of the marriage bargain, but life has twists and turns, and some of that comes in forms of death/divorce. So u still havent answered my q, how will the now widowed wife take care of her kids when her husband isnt around, if she didnt have a previous job or education to fall back on when the time comes? Or divorce and she's left with the burden of kids, and has to now go into the workforce b/c no one else is putting food on the table, paying for the bills, or clothes on their back. Let me give u an example, there are so many, but one comes to mind now. A woman was recently divorced b/c her husband didnt see the merit of taking care of his kids or his wife, and instead, chose his friends and booze over them, and yeah, he was a somali and a so called muslim. So if his wife didn't have a previous job as a nurse and education to fall back on, as we speak she and her kids would have been homeless b/c she doesnt have other family to fall back on. During the course of her marriage, she went back to school and had to take a job b/c her husband's job alone couldnt pay for all the bills and i commend her for helping him with that. Of course, not all men are like that, but u can't also turn your back to men like this. So check out both sides of the coin, instead of focusing only of the positive. Also some women stay with their husbands not b/c its a good marriage, but b/c they have no other means of support, therefore, I think its prudent for the woman to look ahead for unforseen circumstances and plan ahead for the what-ifs...would it hurt? p.s.-there are many brands of feminism and they range from radical, to anti-racist, so all feminists arent of like mind, and QAsim Amin's is what i like, b/c it only there to put pressure on the muslim countries to fulfill their obligations but giving women their rights that were already given in the Quran. I wouldn't promote anything that was in contradiction to my beliefs. peace

Rudy, its about time you told ppl about us, I wasn't sure how long I could keep such an important secret. So now everyone knows... p.s.-as a wedding gift, these are my choices... 1-money 2-perfume 3-house 4-car 5-all of the above... thxs!

Hibo, im cool, no offense taken, just needed to make a point to the ignorant squad and if i seem serious, no ones takes lightly being called childish names, no need to name names, its obvious who.

LMAO!!!! Qac, Prez of Igorant Squad, yet again ur entertaining me with ur futile half brain thoughts. Bless ur miniscule brain. What a load of crap, feminists are lesbians? Pls do some reading ASAP, b4 jumping to conclusions. Man, the more I respond to you, the lower my IQ gets. Sorry for ever entering into any sort of discussion with you, u are obviously not equipped with debating tactics. Peace

Qac Qaac,...ur beyond childish now, i think there's a padded wall and a straitjacket with ur name on it. Since, u insist on every thread u post, whether its relevant or not, to insinuate ur homeland name calling, i got a new name for u and fellow 3 stooges. How does this sound...Ignorant Squad: ur gun=assumptions, ur sword=ignorance, and ur war plan is=hypocrisy. Finito! Hibo, feminism is actually the intellectual discourse/consciousness that fights generally for all ppl's personal freedom, and mainly for women. Through feminism, lots of women's organizations have come about, which help women with childcare, healthcare, education, etc... So, lets not brand feminism for a foe if ur missing the true meaning behind the word. Its not about crazy lesbos waiting to castrate men, thats called a stereotype, and im sure ur bright enuff to see that. And contrary to popular myth/belief, men too can be feminists, such as the founder of feminism, a MAN, can u believe it? and a muslim man at that, Qasim Amin, an Egyptian who stood up for women's rights, and called for the implementation of the sharia in womens lives that so many so called muslim countries neglect to give their women. So, if u choose to be a traditional, great for u, but I know plenty of women who are "super"moms , many not by choice. What will u do when by chance ur husband may not be around to take care of u, maybe death or divorce, how will u provide for ur kids? So i say to the sistas, go on with ur education, and marry when u are financially secure, because God knows when one day, when bringing home the bacon might be on ur shoulders. cheers!!

Fiji or Bora Bora

Qac, u really make me laugh, thxs for that comic relief i needed it. As for me calling u a hypocrite, well, to me a hypocrite says one thing and does another, and that is what u have displayed here, so according to what u wrote here and another posts, u fit my description. Sorry if ur not comfortable with it, but someone had to eye u with a microsocope. U and ur less than intelligent friend were so quick to call names, 2 can play that game brotha!

Correct me if this is wrong or not...in one of my Near and Mid-east classes, the Muslim prof said that the first person, other than the prophets' wife, was her cousin,a woman, who then told her to believe in what the vision the prophet saw in. If not..can i get the proper hadith?

Thxs UD, for that caring sermon...I truly appreciate ur guidance and support. Cheers!

Hey, this is not about her private life...its about someone being attacked viciously for no apparent reason, no matter what road they choose in life, they do not deserve this..let God judge..

I was deemed a progressive Muslim, therefore i have one more to go to become a better Muslim, i think if most ppl are honest with themselves, they might be in this category. Im curious to see what others here got on their assessment, if they were happy with it or looking to improve like me.

lol@DnD, princess &Pearl, well said. Couldnt have said it better myself.Hey, we must all be neo-nazi feminist huh? since we dare to confront/talk back to the "man", gee, we must all be lesbians with bald heads. I swear, QAc loves me, man i'm blushing, everywhere i look, he's talking about me, thxs for those lovely encouraging words, may God bless you for your guidance. May I one day find a man that is not threatened by a headstrong opinionated woman, and hopefully, he wont need to switch from his macawis to a dirac. Can i get an amen?! Anyways, some of u have strayed from the topic in order to reinforce ur own thoughts and ideologies, which is all up to u, but pls refrain from generalizing. So, when ur done ur education and have no use for partying anymore, how about focusing on ur career, either getting one started or seeing what field ud like to work in. After that, get a hobby, whether its travelling or anything else that interests you, see the world, maybe go to Hajj, 'cause some things are easier to accomplish while you are still single. Also, take this time to get to know urself, plan for your future and how you would like it to end up to be, whether it is determining what type of mate you'd like, what can you offer them, get in touch with more of your deen, cause we all need it, etc....basically expand your horizons. Some ppl are overlooking fate, meaning that only God knows when one will get married , if at all, and how many times, etc....so don't look at ur biological clock ticking, its all in Gods hands, who knows if some of us might even be able to bare kids. Get married when ur mentally, emotionally, financially ready, otherwise, you may not bring to the table all u can offer which might make a less than fruitfull marriage. Anyways, im wishing u good luck, and hopefully, find ur way in this transition period ur in. Adios!

Kinda ironic that Qac and Garab are talking out of their emotions, throwing wild accusations out there, yet accuse us sistas as not seeing the "light" out of emotion...i wonder, where did u get ur Psych degree? The School Of Hypocrisy?

Qac and Garab, so sad to see minds wasted on ignorance. I suggest u donated urs since its obviously not in good use...and yeah Qac, u are a HYPOCRITE...thats my "emotional" side talking dear Robot...may ur prosper in ur ignorant land, im glad to reside in Feminist St.

wow, thats' impressive! :eek: Congrats to him, i have a few guys in mind i wanna send to him for some much needed bootcamp.

Compare martha to Dick Chaney and the Enron execs. She is an angel. Oprah will be next na'mean. The women empires are coming down fast na'mean. Bingo...u hit the nail on the head, u basically said what i was thinking. This proves that some men feel a tad threatened by a successful woman, and must do all to bring her down.

weren't u always? :eek:

wow, some of the men here truly amaze me, but on the other hand, im not at all surprised. First, Qac, im disappointed in u, mainly b/c u still do not see what was wrong in ur friends PM, instead, u now go to the position of all us women here were offended b/c we must all be like what ur friend insinuated to OPi...to me, ur not better than him, u basically re-said everything he put in his racist hateful message and now applied to all of us. Bravo, ur in the doghouse. 2nd, to the other men, and i use that term loosely, instead of reprimanding one of ur fellow men, u instead choose to congratulate him that he did not air any of Opi's imaginary hateful messages to him. I challenge him to do so, forget the chilvary, and air it, but i have a sad lil' thought that he has nothing to put her in a bad light, and instead is bluffling, now acting like a "gentleman", and choosing..haha...not to air her imaginary messages to him. Last but not least, this topic has indeed taught us something, some ppl are "getting stuuupider", and it is clearly demonstrated here. u got ur answer Qac, but not only from ur fellow friend, but from urself as well. p.s.-many hide behind the veil of Islam, when in fact i have yet to see 'em acting islamicly, in regards to the PM...if thats what we show ppl is Islam,thats how muslim ppl act, can't blame em for not converting.