it makes no difference to me wither I am Somali, Xabash, oromo or canfari, but why don't you step out of the dark ages. with that mentality, your people wll continue to be in that sorry state while you get fat off of western aid.

soomaali ilahey sedan ha uu damo. Ormia iyo itobiyan maxad iskugu mashqulineysan. Is not Oromia a provence of itobiya. Oromo waa qabiilka ugu wain eee itobiya, hadey cid wax tarayan, iyaga wax istaralehaye, africaano mad dantena garatan?

walaal, ilma adeeryada at ka hadleyset granmaye, waxad uu igtahay mid dagal deyar oo ihe, maad aded Somalia, koley barre wu ku bahnan donnaye.

Itobiya is not Isreal, can we be a little less hyperbolic!

MOGADISHU, July 5 (Reuters) - Somali Islamist militia shot dead two people demanding to watch the World Cup semi-final, witnesses said on Wednesday, in the latest sign of a hardline religious edge to the newly powerful movement. Four others were wounded in the fracas outside a cinema. The Islamists, who kicked U.S.-backed warlords out of Mogadishu then took control of a large swathe of southern Somalia last month, initially sought to project a moderate image but have been increasingly showing a more radical side. Tuesday night's shooting came when militiamen in the central town of Dusa Mareb -- the home area of the Islamists' hardline leader Sheikh Hassan Dahir Aweys -- shut a cinema showing the Germany-Italy semi-final, inhabitants told Reuters. "They stood in front of the cinema and told the cinema to shut down quickly," resident Muhubo Warsame said by phone. When the mainly young audience began a demonstration outside, the gunmen first shot into the air, but their bullets also killed two and wounded four others, the witnesses said. The fatalities were the cinema owner and a young girl. "Islam does not accept killing an innocent person without reason," Elmi Abdullahi, a local elder, told Reuters. "We support the Islamic courts, yet our children are dying without reason," added another elder, who asked not to be named. There have been numerous other reports of militia from the Islamic sharia courts -- out of which the movement grew -- stopping viewings of the World Cup, provoking public protests. Islamist leaders say that is not their policy, but rather the work of over-zealous militiamen. The Islamist militia see World Cup gatherings as a potential magnet for vices like rowdiness or chewing of the popular and mildly narcotic qat leaf. Prior to the takeover of Mogadishu, Islamist militia had also been cracking down on pornographic films. AID CONVOY IN FRACAS Somalis, who initially welcomed the relative pacification of Mogadishu and other areas by the Islamists, are becoming disillusioned with some of their practices and nervous of a Taliban-style rule. Somalis are mostly moderate Muslims. On a recent visit to Mogadishu, various locals complained to Reuters of militia forcibly chopping long hair, making women cover their faces and whipping people for watching soccer. The sheikhs at the forefront of the movement say they have no foreign model and their priority is to bring law and order to the Horn of Africa nation, which has been without central rule since warlords ousted a military dictator in 1991. But Aweys also wants to see government based on Islamic law. That puts the Islamists at odds with the weak interim government -- based in the provincial town of Baidoa -- which is backed by the West and was founded on a secular charter. A delegation from the African Union (AU) and east African inter-governmental peace body IGAD was visiting Baidoa on Wednesday in the latest effort by the international community to come to terms with Somalia's power-shift. While many hoped the Islamists and government could reach a power-sharing accord, they now fear armed confrontation. Underlining the insecurity throughout Somalia, the U.N. World Food Programme (WFP) said a convoy carrying food aid from Kenya was attacked during a tribal conflict in the south. WFP spokesman Peter Smerdon said its transport sub-contractors had given varying accounts of some casualties, but details had not been confirmed. (Additional reporting by Guled Mohamed, Jack Kimball and Andrew Cawthorne in Nairobi) does thath help caano?

talo kama ahe, fidna bey ka tahay.

Illahey ha u naxariisto. For the rest of you guys, a little respect please, this for amxaaro, icu or tfg is this or that nonse.

RS, there are several things wrong with what you say. Furthermore, i have yet to understand how you and others determine what the "people" want as you continue to speak for the "people". Second, self defense is a right of all. Ethiopia has a right to defind itself from those whose goals are its destruction and with these taliban-like wadaads in xamar, they have a reason to believe they have such an enemy. another, any government of a nation can invite a foreign power to assist them unless the law of that nation forbids it. There is no such law and parliament approved the requist of the government to get such an asiistance. thirdly, we have no border with Ethiopia in the south. who made this border you are talking about? Lastly, any interim government which does not have disarmement of the masses as its main goal is a useless government. For all those here who are making all this fuss about foreign troops, as if the very people who have destroyed the country all the sudden care about the country enough to be offended by foreign troops intering the country, how are people to be disarmed without these foreign troops? Aniga waxey ilatahay dacaayada iyo cadowsiga wadamaden noo so gargarey in laga dayo aya fiican.

^^^ you refute the validity of widely reported, photographed and barbaric actions that these courts do not bother to hide, infact boost about, and continue with your baseless accusations about the president.

^^^ will this "open dialogue" ever end? when can we actually get to the business of rebiulding our country.

To RS, If there are ethiopians, UIC hostility has brought it. Do u really thing that it is wise to demand an end to an effect before what cause it?

I am gald to see we all agree that there should be no talks.

DS, I think you should perform "Shariah implementation" on yourself. Faith is a personal believe and can not be forced on to others. What religion you believe in and how you interpet its teachings is a personal thing. Even the relgion you profess to follow tells you so when it says that there is no compulsion in religion. also, your arrognace, to speak for a ten million Somalis, can only be attrubited to ignorence. Contrary to what you say, must Somalis do not want Sharia. I have already noted the documented cultural, traditional and historical reasons why things are not as you say but to further prove it to you, let me say that if most Somalis wanted Shariah, there would be no need to "implement" it. If individauls do not want it enough to " implement" on themselves, how they demand it of others? also, this is what heathen means: hea·then (hē'THən) pronunciation n., pl. -thens or heathen. 1. Offensive. 1. One who adheres to the religion of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam. 2. Such persons considered as a group; the unconverted. 2. 1. One who is regarded as irreligious, uncivilized, or unenlightened. 2. Such persons considered as a group. Considering this, extrimist, like you, would be the heathons for being uncivilized and unenlightened under the second defination of the word where secularist, like me, would not be considered so because we do acknowledge the "god of Judaism, christianity and islam. we just do not believe that fools should interpret the wishs of that god for us and that his teachings should be implemented at a personal rather than sociatal level.

in my understanding (a student of political science) the word terrorist has two meanings. one is the political use of violence by non state actors suchs as rebels. the second and more recent common understanding of terrorist is amember of jihadi or religous extremist who use violance for politcal gain. It shoud be clear to you now who are the terrorist. as for that government should do this or that, I believe you are wrong. One, the government sided with what it believed to be a poeples uprising in mogadishu. This was hijacted by terrorist such as aweeys and indo who have made clear time and again that they want to overthrow the intrm government. None the less, the government headed to the sudanese capital and made some agreements with these wadaads. Not only did they break every one of those basic agreements such as session of hostilities, they brought troops to a place few kilometers away from the base of the government. Ya gardaren labada? It makes no sense to me to attack an entity, than tell them how to defind themselfs, does it to you. Furthermore, it seems to me that the one entity that has not broken the agreements and has not attacked anyone should be the one to set preconditions to any new negotiations for the other entity has showned that the will break their agreements. Should the courts not want to negotiate, even better. The TFG should not even negotiate with any new factions anyway, that was done for over two years. should these people have any grievences, they should address through their representatives in parliament. We are islamics is not an excuse, by the way for those of you who bothered to read the charter, the prime source of law according to the charter is the shariah.

lastly, all should stop the personification of a notional problem. Yusuf and geedi have work tirelessly to solve that problem. the failure thus for of their attempts to solve that problem,is not an indecation of their ability but the failure of an intire people to support them, because all before them have failed. Their success or failure speaks of the ability or inability of a entire nation to solve this problem and not two people in a government of two hundred and seventy five.

as for northerners who flame the fire that has been raging in Somalia under precieved interest of their regions (Somaliland and puntland may get independence if the setuation in the south continues ), is it not a counterdiction to present these attempts at secession as a fait accompli on the one hand and advocate for instability in the south on the other hand, in the hope that the instability of the south helps your attempts a secession?

our government is very large. despite tyhe fact that some here like to paint the government as the tool of two people,geedi for people who like yusuf and yusuf for those who support the courts amog others. all people and factions in somalia are represented and share power and desicion making in the government. No government has wan so much support as the TFG from the. this is the only viable vehical by which we will reach that common goal of a return to state hood. Should we lose this chance, no one will support another faction in their greedy search for power rather than statehood. Duke, SXB, have you lost sight of that goal and the fact that shoulf this government fail, there will be no such thing as Somalia. While people ponder the pity ways by which their clan factions may rule Somalia (a futile indever if there ever was one), the existance of state is at stake. what a shame. People , please keep your eyes on the prize. if nothing else, lets stop wasting the time of serous states like puntland and Somaliland who are working fort the interest of there citizens and keeping in this hell that has been Somalia thanks to the inability of southerners to rise above their narrow clan interest and support those of the nation. People like me, have something we can call our own (be it Somaliland or puntland) what do you dowleddiid in the south who undermine every attempt to return to normalicy under the pretense of this and that person heads the government. What will satisfy you for you have left nothing to fight over?

walaalayal, why can't we focus. It is obvous to all but the blind that the maxaakims policies of chopping the limbs of people, beating the people who sing at widdings, shooting those who watch games, cut the hair of those the deem to have western hairstyles, calling for the death of those who do not pray five times a day among other things, is in line with what the talibans have done. Further more, call them clans or ethinc groups, such divisions do exist among both sociaties. Like xamas, hizbullah and particularly the taliban, these maxaakims hide their agenda of islamic extrimism under social assistance and the uprooting of people like the warlords of Somalia. Like, the taliban,these courts will reviel their true agenda more and more power. Of all things we have to deal with, do we need this in Somalia? Contrary to all the seeflabood in here, Somalis have practiced a pacifist form of islam. They are naturally democartic, so much so that our nations was called a pastoral democracy, africas first democrats, a nation of feirce republicans and the irish of africa for our love of independence. We were a nation that was naturally secular in that men were either wadaad or waranle (All other men). for a such a nation, is it not foolish to further destroy our democratic and secular traditions (proven to work best in all sociaties) and follow in the foot steps of people like the taliban?

FPIF Policy Report A New Frontier of Jihadi Islam? Najum Mushtaq | July 25, 2006 Editor: John Feffer, IRC Foreign Policy In Focus www.fpif.org Somalia today is very much like Afghanistan was in 1996. In the wake of years of civil war, chaotic rule by warlords, and the death and displacement of countless Muslims, a ragtag Islamic militia has moved in to take control of much of Somalia. After running off some prominent warlords from their entrenched strongholds, the Islamic militia has sought to establish and expand its writ and has threatened to dislodge an internationally backed transitional government made up of veteran warlords with limited authority. Businessmen, clan leaders, and the general public, having tired of seemingly interminable factional violence and lawlessness, have lent support to the al-Qaida-aligned, fiercely anti-American Islamic militia, which draws legitimacy from its plans to restore peace and order. The militia has purported to do so by enforcing a court system based on an ultra-orthodox version of the Sharia (Islamic law) and tribal social norms. The parallels between the predicaments of Somalia today and Afghanistan in 1996 are striking. Unless neighboring countries and the international community take this “Afghanistan†scenario seriously, Somalia will become the next frontier of jihadi Islam. Unless the United States changes its policy of funding an anti-terrorism alliance of Somali warlords, it will face a second Taliban. And unless Ethiopia rethinks its July 20 military intervention to prop up the transitional government against the Islamic Courts, Sunni Muslim sentiment in Somalia will turn even more radical. Taliban-II? Many analysts underestimate or simply dismiss the potential of Somalia becoming the Afghanistan of Africa. The Somali tradition of “religious moderation and tolerance†is cited as a deterrent to a Taliban-like, medieval administration that could destabilize the region and provide support for militant Islamic movements worldwide . For instance, in his July 11 testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, former U.S. ambassador to Ethiopia David Shinn noted that the rise of Islamic militias “does not mean, however, that Somalia is likely to become a major al-Qaida base or that it is headed toward a Taliban form of government. The vast majority of Somalis follow a moderate form of Islam and they are highly suspicious of foreign influence.†An International Crisis Group report says that “Somalis in general show little interest in jihadi Islamism; most are deeply opposed. Somali militant movements have failed to gain broad popular support, encountering instead widespread hostility. The most remarkable feature is that Islamist militancy has not become more firmly rooted in what should, by most conventional assessments, be fertile ground.†Still others point to the diversity of Somalia. The Islamic courts, Somalia observers say, have yet to venture into areas outside the ****** belt and, even within this clan, ideological and intra-clan differences are sharp. Some of the Islamic courts and Islamic leaders are seen to be more moderate than others. It remains to be seen if their radical Islamic rhetoric can keep the disparate Union of Islamic Courts united. Conventional Somali wisdom says clan affiliation comes before anything else. Yet a look at Somalia's recent history, the events of the past few months, and the geo-strategic context in which the Islamic courts have gained ground all point to a more ominous future. The Rise of the Courts Since the fall of General Siyaad Barre's military regime in 1991, Somalia has been at war with itself, fragmented and carved up by warlords and clan-based militias, and without central rule. No less than fourteen attempts to restore statehood through internationally brokered national governments have failed to bring order or stem the violence. The Barre government had suppressed the Islamic movements of all hues for over twenty years. In the political vacuum and power struggle that ensued after Barre's fall, militant Islamic movements resurfaced with a vengeance, working on all fronts ranging from commerce to the judiciary. Islamic leaders had first earned legitimacy by assuming and effectively administering court functions in lawless areas in the greater Mogadishu region. These clan-based courts also kept militias and have since been major players in internecine fighting. After a successful campaign earlier this year against the pro-U.S. warlords in the capital city, militias of the Islamic Courts now have direct control of Mogadishu's sixteen districts and three other strategic regions in Somalia's heartland and are looking to forge alliances in others. New Islamic courts are being established in areas under the nominal control of the internationally backed transitional government. The government's own militiamen are joining the courts—as they did recently in Buur Hakaba, in the Bey region. Despite inner wrangling for power, the Union of Islamic Courts has made a bid to speak with one voice to the international community and in negotiations with the warlord-led transitional government. In terms of manpower and weaponry the militias are as formidable as any other factional force in the country. And unlike the warlords, the Islamic militia seems to enjoy popular legitimacy. In addition to offering the prospect of peace after relentless bloodshed, the Islamic movement derives much of its legitimacy from its anti-American stance. Like the Taliban, the tone and tenor of the victorious Islamic Courts in Mogadishu evince a religious self-righteousness that, when translated into political power, will have implications far beyond the immediate local Somali context. In his first interview after taking over Mogadishu, Shaykh Sharif Ahmed, one of the founding leaders of the Supreme Council of Islamic Courts, told the UN news agency IRIN: “ I think it is the American government that is against the Somali people. It is they who attacked the Somali people. It is the U.S. government that gave a lot of money to fund the faction leaders … We believe that the American government was responsible for the fighting. It is the Americans who are against the Somali people. We are not against them.†Al-Qaida, court leaders say, is a figment of the American imagination. However, in areas already under the Islamic Courts' control, a process of consolidation of power is underway. Sharia laws and a Taliban-like code of public behavior are in force. Although almost all Somalis follow the more tolerant versions of Shaf'i school of thought, the surging Islamic movement in Somalia is a departure from the traditional structures of religion. Rather than being introverted and beholden to traditions, the movement is inspired by radical modern thinkers likes Syed Qutab of Egypt and Maududi of Pakistan, both of whom had envisioned Sharia-based societies. To complement the power of the Islamic courts there has been a phenomenal growth of charities, NGOs, and businesses with radical religious credentials. Islamic schools, where traditional religious texts and scriptures form the educational core, have filled the vacuum created by the devastation of the school system. Islamic movements dominate most of the universities and educational institutions. More than 300 Quranic schools in Somalia prepare indoctrinated clerics. Segregation of women, symbolized by the sweeping spread of the veil and the forceful advocacy of the Islamic code of conduct on modesty, seem irreversible trends. Many Somalis see it as an Islamic revolution that has been brewing for decades and has already Islamicized the culture and education system of Somalia. The perceptions of a moderate, tolerant Islam in Somalia are far removed from a present reality shaped by internecine violence and the post-September 11 international environment. America's insistence on the al-Qaida connection may not be misplaced. Somalia could well be a refuge for some suspects in the Nairobi and Dar-es-Salaam bombings. Hasan Daher Aweys, the new leader of the Supreme Council of Islamic Courts, is on America's list of supporters of terrorism. Osama bin Laden, too, has claimed to have worked in tandem with the Somali militants. Like the Taliban toward Osama bin Laden, Mogadishu's Islamic courts also argue that any terrorist suspects in Somalia should be tried by local courts rather than extradited to other countries . And al-Qaida is certainly not a prime concern for the Somalis who seem willing to tolerate and even back a union of militant clerics in return for a semblance of stability and normalcy. For the people of Mogadishu and other regions, the terrorists they have known over the last decade and a half are the factional warlords and their forces from whom they have gained respite due to the Islamic courts. So far, other than the cornered warlords, public resistance to the rise of the Islamic courts has been conspicuous by its absence. Regional Response Direct and indirect involvement of regional actors in Somalia's civil war is another complication it shares with Afghanistan. The emergent power and popularity of the Islamic courts has evoked a hostile response from its neighbors, many of which have sizeable Muslim minorities. Ethiopia, a longstanding supporter of Abdullahi Yusuf, a warlord now leading the shaky transitional government in Bidoa, is wary of an Islamic administration in Mogadishu. Ethiopian worries are rooted in its troubled “Fifth Zone,†a Somali-dominated Muslim region whose separatist movement has old ties with Somali Islamic movements. Ethiopian forces have conducted exercises on and, at times, inside the Somali border. As Islamic leaders started to establish new courts in towns close to Bidoa, Ethiopian troops took over the town on July 20 to save the besieged transitional government. Ethiopia's military intervention then extended to the town of Wajid a few days later, and the people of Mogadishu were up in protest. A rally on July 22 to denounce Ethiopia captured the prevalent mood among Somali Muslims. The breakdown of Arab League-sponsored Khartoum talks and rigid policy positions of all sides make war a likely outcome of this standoff, unless Ethiopia withdraws its troops. The wave of radicalism among Somali Muslims will only gather force as the sentiment against foreign military intervention rises. Kenya, burdened by more than 50,000 refugees, also has cause for concern. More bloodshed and violence, a likely outcome of the Islamic courts' ascendancy, will increase the flow of people across the border. The strong suspicion that al-Qaida fugitives implicated in the American embassy bombing of 2002 and other acts of terrorism in Kenya are in Somalia reinforces the perception of threat. Moreover, Kenya was a key actor in setting up the transitional government that the Islamic courts now threaten. The Islamic-minded government in Khartoum, on the other hand, has on a number of occasions in the 1990s tried to unify the disparate religious movements of Somalia to form an Islamic emirate. After the Islamic courts took over Mogadishu in June 2006, Sudan also facilitated an agreement between the Islamic militia and the transitional government. With the Ethiopian military propping up its client warlord and by extension the transitional government, the agreement increasingly seems to be in jeopardy. The U.S. Factor To add to this complex, volatile, but clearly drawn-out regional scenario, U.S.-led coalition forces are anchored in Red Sea waters off Somalia, for the purpose of blocking off international Islamic networks' support systems. Though formally disengaged from the Somali conflict since the Black Hawk Down episode in 1993, the United States has been siding with the rivals of the Islamic militias—a policy pursued with more vigor since September 11. The rise of Islamic extremism in Somalia is a direct consequence of the desultory conduct of America's war on terrorism and its Somalia policy over the last two decades. In fact, the failed American attempt to influence the outcome of the civil war by funding an anti-terrorism alliance of unpopular warlords has left the Bush administration's ideological Somalia policy in shreds and further tarnished the U.S. image in Somalia. Washington insists on pursuing a multilateral process of negotiations and supporting the anti-Islamist transitional government. Realities in Somalia are changing but the American policy, defined by its anti-terrorism zeal and its antipathy to anything Islamic, will ultimately lead to a wider regional conflict, and perhaps at some later stage, direct confrontation. The nascent Supreme Council of the Islamic Courts is therefore under severe constraints in terms of expanding its initial gains to the rest of Somalia. Diplomatically Washington prefers engagement through the Somalia Contact Group, which also includes Norway, Britain, Sweden, Italy, Tanzania, and the European Union. (The African Union, the Arab League, a group of East African countries, and the United Nations have observer status.) The contact group supports the transitional government as “the legitimate framework for continued dialogue and the reestablishment of governance in Somalia leading to a successful transition to an elected, representative government at the end of the transitional period in 2009,†according to its July 18, 2006 joint communiqué. Given the pace of events, this attempt to artificially prop up transitional institutions will soon be redundant and already seems out of touch with ground realities in Somalia. Persisting with its policy of funding and openly backing discredited warlords has been and will remain counterproductive for the United States. At the same time, an aversion to Islamic rule and the terrorism connection will make it hard for the United States and the Contact Group in general to continue to accept the Islamic courts' rule in Mogadishu and its expansion. Proxy wars, regional military conflicts, and a new pattern of Somalia's fragmentation are in the cards. However moderate and tolerant Somali Islam might have been in the past, the future bodes ill for Somalia. It might eventually be irrelevant whether or not the Islamic forces succeed in setting up something resembling a nationwide state structure in Somalia. All over the Muslim world, militant Sharia movements have proved that they do not necessarily require formal state structures to recruit populations for militant causes and entrench themselves in society. Again, the Taliban are a prime example. Since the defeat of the Taliban government in late 2001, the movement has gained new momentum and continues to inflict heavy damage. The Taliban ideology has virtually taken over the tribal areas of Pakistan and remains as potent within Afghanistan as ever. The Islamic courts of Somalia and the ideology they espouse are also here to stay. They have deepened the fissures within the larger Somali society, sharpened conflicts with regional powers, and stoutly defied America's war on terrorism. With them a new era of jihadi Islam and violent confrontation in the horn of Africa has set in. “ Let what is on this side of the bank be washed out by the flood,†says the Somalia proverb, “and what is on that side of the bank carried away by the wind.†Caught between Islamic Courts on the one hand and the Ethiopian military on the other, Somalia indeed faces the twin plagues of flood and wind. Najum Mushtaq is a Nairobi-based journalist.

Somaliland meelkastey kujirta ayaamahan.

if they focused on mogadishu to begin with, there would be no problem but with indho and the terrorist, do you really believe they will focuss on mogadishu?

what some don't understand is that the formation of the tfg was based both on those controled the country and those that represent the people or clans (It all comes downs clans in somalia even though some dowled diid try to hide that fact) or regions of Somalia. This is the only realistic way to move forward if it were not for the fact that the war lords of the south put on a new shirt every time the rest of the country thinks they have found a way to please them. their oppisition is not based on ideology or clan interest but on the fact that they are dowled diid, anarchist who are only after their personal comercial interest and it will work so long as they are able to convence the poor illiterate masses of the south that they have their interest at heart. How long, however, can the rest of the country engage them in endless negotiations?

the wadaads should either disarm or stay in mogadishu. Does it make any sense to attack the government and then till them how they should defind their base?

To left the embargo, the un is only asking for a detailed. Instead of repeating their support, they should submit such a plan.

"Naxar, when someone doesn't appreciate the fact that over a million somalis who lived under brutality for sixteen years are liberated from the warlords, he has credibility problem." Xoogsade one, we all were happy for the "liberation" of those poor Somalis and the whole country yet when become clear that that the "liberators" are no better then, if not worse, then the onces they fighting, we lose hope yet agian and see that then for what they are, actors in that famous Mogadishu play called moryanism. However, whatever my credibility, its hell of a lot better then Indha iyo awes. "One reason many people look down on the word "nationalism", "government" and related institutions is because the people who advocate for them have narrow clan interests rather than wanting to serve in government to work for the common man. This is why Majority of somalis don't see these TFG rulers as credible personalities." What advocacy should a government need from its people? Walaal, dowladen wa lo dan yahay, cidina kama maqna and this legitimacy question is becoming a cliche'.