The first three paragraphs were enough to make me stop reading any furthur

Thanks Ashkiro I also did not read all the replies and was a bit hasty in my reply

Blessed Thanks i have bookmarked it but i will insha ALLAH have a look through some other time. Nothing in particular its just my way of learning.

Faynuus Thank you for the reply

Ashkiro You are right and i went on an on. I was in fact going to post an apology. I dont think i was too far off the topic though. Thanks.

I am looking to do research and i would be greatful if anyone pointed out to me any good sites where i can access the Qur'aan and the Ahadiis in a maner that enables easy look up for words and concepts or commands.

I have to say that Somaliland has probably a worse enemny in the president than from any other place if he were to keep on tresspassing on the constitution and undermine transparency. If Somaliland is to be a precedent for the rest of the Somalis, then he has to get his acts together and work for his citizens and bring thrust back into Somali politics. Somali saying goes "Waxii la qariyaa qurunbaa kujira"

Horn It was very interesting indeed. Thanks

Xiin Ninkaani somaalida aad buu ugu dadaalay maxayse kuugu taalaa anagu waxaan nahay dad aan mahadsanid iyo hadalada tixgalinta ah aqoonin. Maxuu kabadan uqaban waayay ayay qaar leeyihiin. Macuryaan baa may ayagu qabsadaan oo dantooda gartaan. Gacan gargaar baa loosoo taagay maxaa garbahaaga noogu qaadi wayday ayaa laleeyahay. Xaqiiqdii anigu waxaan qabaa in aan kaligeen dagaal joojin xataa kufilan nahay. Waan ogahay in aysan fududayn laakin hogaamiyaal hogaamiga ayaa la'arki jiray, kuwa baryahaan jooga diigya cab aan xataa dadkooda lahadli karin oo si wax looga dhaadhijiyo aan garanaynin weeye. Midwalba dhinaciisuu xogsanayaa meeshii uu nabada iyo kalsoonida xoojin lahaa. Anigu hade in kasto aan maamul iyo kaladambayn aad uga dambeeyo hadana waan ogsoonahay in dawlada maanta jirta ay duli ubadan yihiin. Nin dadkiisii laayay waa duli balse xabad baan ugaga saarayaa oo asagii aan ladiriraayay wax udhimaayi ee masaakiinta ayaan laynayaa asagana dhinaciisa hakalaayo talo ma'aha bay ila tahay.

I agree almost on all the fourteen. There is non that i dont agree with its just that i dont know. Insha ALLAH may be some day i will know more.

A very good read i enjoyed it thanks professor

I am sorry folks for the extra length but in short I am against the formation of an Islamic state back home. You don’t really need to read any further for the rest is just an attempt at explaining my views. I think the author is right and i for one agree with him absolutely. Religion is very much a personal thing. I pray without being forced to do so and so i would like to keep it. I want my obedience and reliance on ALLAH swt to be from me and not because i fear punishment from the government. I want to be able to claim outright all the rewards from my obedience and not have to share with a wadaad or a government that which without them forcing me, the chances could have, supposedly, been me ending up as a sinner. Most of all, if we are to go by the reality as is displayed by the Islamic states, we would be much better off with the separation of state and religion. As the writer points out there seems to be no mechanism that forces the law to be respected equally by the public and the rulers. The public are forced by the police and maybe the military but the rulers seem to be above the law in practice. Who is going to bring them to obey the law when they can hire or fire whoever they want and all the powers are vested in them. Everybody is made to believe to be owing the rulers, thank you for giving me food, shelter, peace and even a little bit more for self indulgence. If this is not idolisation I don’t know what is. All the power sooner or later accumulates to the people at the top and why not declare themselves kings. Most of them have already. In my business i get to meet a lot of people and just this week i met a kuwaiti and not too far back two saudis. They have all been convinced by their states that the wealth belongs to the ruling families. The Kuwaiti argued, that the ruling family bought the land piece by piece from their grandfathers in exchange for peace and upkeep. They were all grateful because they say we get given all we want because we are natives. Even our scholarships to come here to the uk was paid for us out of their kindness. I am very opposed to grooming people like that. I would rather that the government set clear and just procedures to acquiring property. And although pieces of land can be bought by individuals, not all the land is to be bought by one individual or entity-a family or an organisation. As concerns wealth, since all transactions are to be done honestly, a disadvantaged people can be robbed off their land even by purchase. If buyers find themselves bequeathed with wealth, education and skills and the sellers plagued by poverty, ignorance and chaos, then the buyers will, unless they are honest with the reasons as to why they want to buy their land, simply get it for peanuts and not for what it is worth in the free market. Any such transaction, if justice is to prevail, are then to be seen as nothing more than cheating and ought not to be honoured or enforced by law or by any means. Another tactic that can be used is to engineer desperation. Increasing the needs to trade quickly and or reducing the readily available market is another unjust way of acquiring wealth. This forces selling at the cheapest prices from the sellers by increasing their dependency or urgency for particular goods while reducing choice. Warlords, dictators and kings all use these methods to some extent. In the west you may have heard of anti-competition laws or anti trust laws. Big companies get sued some even fragmented just for growing too big because they inhibit competition it is said. What about land or natural recourses of the whole country? can one man or family own everything or the majority of it. I think not. Imagine Bill Gates buying Puntland or any more states and asking all the people to vacate because it is now his private property. But even more important is the fact that to use force against anybody, one needs justification. The use of force by many governments is normally justified by claiming a mandate to serve and to protect. They are then limited to fighting injustices or stopping them from happening and creating opportunities. This I have to say seems to work. What however does not work is when force is used for anything other than to bring about justice. We must spread or strengthen religion the way it is meant to be spread or strengthened and that is by dawa when dealing with adults and instilling when it is our young ones and never by force. In fact forcing anybody including our children to religion increases the chances that they get repelled by it just as persuasion increases the chances that they be attracted to it. If however we are to adopt sharia, since we are not already an Islamic state and we are all adults thus dawa is right here, it has then to be by popular support, I reckon just as is to be required for Somaliland’s independence, first a chance is to be given for both sides to present their case to the people. This may involve a sufficient period for campaigning is to agreed upon. Secondly a greater majority must be established than forty nine-fifty or something ****** like that. It has to be over seventy five percent of the inhabitants of each distinct area at least. Even more preferably. A seventy five percent or more of the entire as a whole is only to be valid if the minimum for each distinct area , say seventy five percent, is reached. Our current state, however, invalidates any plebiscite at present. This is so because if such a plebiscite is to be held at this time for either of the two question, sharia law and cessation of Somaliland it will be like taking advantage of conditions that blind them and force them to choose one way rather than the other. Although I am still convinced that the people will probably choose NO to sharia in most parts of the country, some, especially those who now live in the war zones and areas which have high levels of corruption and lawlessness will tend to choose YES. Emotions will probably overwhelm and compel them. In the same way Somaliland will also now be overwhelmed by patriotic emotions fuelled by ugly past history and lack of a better alternative that will safeguard their rights as well letting them benefit from the social, economic and political goods that unity into a larger whole can most definitely bring about. Our history, culture and traditions are all liberal. Everybody in the whole of Somalia was free to do whatever they wanted including rooming about a large area with no one to force them to follow any rules except by our common culture as can be heard from our poems and songs. People knew what to do and what not because they wanted to be seen favourably by their fellow Somalis and never because of force. Another obstacle is the one of affordability. The Arabs can now do it because they rely heavily on large profits from the sale of fossil fuels. Have no doubt that otherwise they would not have been able to contain a large populous even by the treat of force for who will pay all the manpower needed for such a force to operate efficiently . They now supplement that threat of force with rewards in the form of cash and other bribes. Somalia is however poor and can afford neither hiring a large force just to contain the people nor can any government get enough cash to bribe them. Even the Arabs cant really afford to do keep doing things this way but who is going to wake them up. It is too good while it last but they must also know that it is not sustainable. The fossils will run out sooner or later and the world that is already moved so far will be even further away. So they wont catch up. Going down this route is a truly slippery slope. There is nowhere to go but down. If you are horrified by the large numbers of lost lives and property over the years of civil war like I am, then know that wars don’t come about by themselves. The revolution that saw the overthrow of the former dictator was in part maybe a large part, caused by economic hardships. The government had no more money and the people had nothing, no jobs, no money and no real liberty. If you install any system that forces the individual to be timid and stresses obedience even by force you will be one of those that will have contributed to another fall to come maybe not now but without a doubt someday. In order that the people be productive they need all the freedom that they can get as well as an efficient government. I cant see how any government can be efficient that ventures into enforcing morality not justice. The more responsibility the government takes on the more powers it needs and the more expensive it will be for everybody. Besides the less freedom the people have the more dependent they will become and the less productive. Do you really want to see grown up lashed on the streets for sins that are between and ALLAH. You will create a society full fear whose people are in reality not moral or ethical for you really need personal choice for that. One is not aamin or trustworthy that wont steal from you because the punishment, if found out, is too severe even to contemplate. One is trustworthy because they wont steal period. As I understand and I stand correction, our prophet was not trustworthy because of fear of man or their institutions. But really what do they really want. I mean those that want an Islamic government ? Do we not already have masjids almost in every corner in most Islamic nations. Are the hundreds that join in prayer not enough of a motivation to anybody to join in. Are they then argueing that the few that continue working or chatting on the benches more enough to lure them to change their minds not to join in the prayer ? Or is it that when they force everyone else to pray even though not a clear distinction can then be made as to whether one is then praying for fear or love of ALLAH or simply because they fear their fellow brothers or citizens, they will still get more rewards in the hereafter. Or is it then that they want to avoid their duties as commanded them by ALLAH to bring up responsible Muslims and they would rather create an environment whereby the village or the government can do it for them while they sit around cafes or on benches praising each other. Unless they tell us, we shall of course never know the truth. The thing is I teach my children to be good human beings and to be good Muslims. I take it upon me to do that and so I commit time to talk them , to play with them , to do their homework with them and to make them understand things. I want them not to fear me but to understand why because I wont always be with them. I want them to drive themselves, to be in full command of their lives. I want them to experience things and not only to rely on theory which is what I can offer. I do not want to make invalids people who are already able. I would rather help make them more capable. We have to wake up before its too late. Seek not to force rather seek to make understand.

Personally it wouldn’t’t make a difference whether divorced or never married. I would be more concerned with things like how organised her life is or in refusing anything to do with her disorganised. Although different people choose partners for different reasons maybe depending on what they want in life or is most important to them at that particular time, i think in marriage it would be more important to look for compatibility in light of where we are heading. So if you are a forward looking individual, choosing a partner who is all over the place all the time, regardless of good looking, young or as many Muslims stress a virgin, may end up being frustrating and a disappointment. In such a context i would personally go for a divorced woman who is organised than any young unmarried woman who is not. She has to know what she wants and be prepared for what it entails. Going on ****** ideas brought down the generation probably from alien cultures is even worst, in my opinion, than merely going on looks. These are some of the things i would probably look to avoid if i was looking for a partner for life for that is what marriage is all about and wanted to be able to be better placed to fulfil the responsibilities that come with it such as being a good father and a good husband. Cleanliness of body and as far as that is going to fall under her duties, of the house as well. I know the house will probably need cooperation and the man may be required to do his bit. Proper organisation of time is another. If they, like is common with most Somali families, should find themselves both poor and less educated, it should then be of priority to win back time so that they can recommit it to improving their lives instead. This may mean being lean and mean and hardly ever indulging oneself. This may mean cutting back on most of those long chats on the phone as well as excessive socialising with friends. Cutting back on television hours will also not only save you time you cant afford to waste it will also take out a lot of the background noise that most people don’t even notice anymore yet is a major factor that contributes to many of our ills. Taking away the background noise will, for instance help us delegate recourses where needed when needed. This is because by helping calm our minds needs gain prominence over everything else. They instil themselves at the top and cause worries until solved. People smoke, drink, do drugs or unnecessarily busy themselves with insignificant things in the hope of driving away those worries all to no avail. It only postpones the solutions thereby compounding them. Will have a time limit and when not solves in time will be barriers which we will never transcend ever again. This is not going to be easy for we are already too dependent of socialising as a solution or should I say an escape route, that some of us move towns, regions, countries or even continents because of it. It is common among Somalis to here that a family moved to different place because there is a larger population of Somalis or that that is where everybody is heading lately. There is no honour or dignity in getting used to staying a the bottom. Ours is not to make life bearable at the bottom by making as many friends as possible whom we can confide in or who will for the time help us forget our problems. By choosing the right partner you may however avoid a lot of problems and free yourself from the shackles that chained your ancestors for all this time. Thos same shackles have probably played a part in our current problems. So in seeking change I think we would be wise to start with the family for it is the family that is the most basic unit of the society. Let the family that you end up having not be a fabrication of chance and whims but a conscious choice for an end. If you are to sow the seeds of what you or your offsprings are to reap in a time to come here on the earth or in the hereafter you become a human being and accept yourself and your condition with a passion to progress in a responsible manor. Part of that responsibility is to attempt to break away once and for all from what now seems to be a vicious circle. We must start our reformations and that starts with you as the individual man or woman regarding the union that will bind you into a nuclear family and will be basic unit of our entire society. Our problems are deeply embedded in our customs and beliefs, in my opinion and thus we need to root out those that are without a doubt harmful. Our current state requires us to stress the need for change. We need to start this change as quickly as possible and to probe as deeply as possible just to avoid any further disintegration and the injustices that follow from that. On our way to a better life we must not fear change, we must rather look forward to it as a confirmation that we as human beings and are blessed with the most options to improve our lives. You not only to marry a divorcee but you give her the respect, the dignity and most importantly the love and partnership that she requires. To stand up and be counted as one of that fought this ideology is a bonus. Have you heard, i think it is that blacks have the most divorce rates and in many countires in the west. I wonder if this has anything to do with thier majority in prisons as well. Is it any wonder that this will only lead to downward spiral.

ILLAHAW naga badbaadi kuligeen aamiin

Thanks for the compliment johnny b and although the sheikh and i tried to convince you and failed we may regroup and try again I hope all is good with Cara. Wish you peace and GOD'S blessings IA and a very fulfilled life aamiin. ps i am not new saaxiib but still thanks for the welcome. I lost my password and couldnt get it so i made me a new name.

May ALLAH swt help him safe back home aamiin.

^ If belief means, as the dictionary on my computer tells me, ACCEPTANCE THAT SOMETHING IS TRUE OR REAL, then we as believers accept of GODS BEING without being able to prove. Prove is the derivation of facts from previous knowledge. Athiest says there is no GOD. Is this a statement or not ? I can for instance CLAIM that there is no CHAIR in my living room and if you wanted to confirm that you will simply have a look and because we already agree on the defination as to what a chair is, you may be able to confirm true or false right? I can then prove my claim that there is actually no chair in my living room. If i as a believer says there is GOD and then i tell you that i wont be able to prove to you that there is and you then say that there is no GOD and you also wont be able to prove are not both believers. WE have both accepted things as true which we are not able to prove. I can for instance claim that if johny b is not in my living room. I am ofcourse assuming that there is human being(organic)with whom i am conversing. You as johny b can confirm this can you not ? have i not proven then to you of, as you say is not possible a negative statement. I still say that yours is as much a belief as is mine. Appolgies if i write alot that says very little

They are nothing but ****** are sowing the seeds for more bloodshed in the horn of africa. We are already overburdened with misery dont they realise that this wont help no one. They need to stop the violence and the mistreatment of somalis and whoever else that are also mistreated. It should have been building them roads and hospitals if they wont let them go free. Africans will never mature.

^ I think the sheikh was right. Athiesm is as much a belief as any other. In religions people believe that GOD IS without being able to prove. In athiesm people BELIEVE that GOD is NOT also without being able to prove. It is commonly said that only the positive can be prove and no negative can be proved becuase it is a negative, however any assertion becomes a positive. If you can claim that GOD IS NOT then you also ought to be able to prove that and not simply pass the onus to those that claim that GOD IS. Agnostics are different. They are in my opinion the true scientists. They will not pass judgement until they know. In my opinion agnostism is then lack of belief. As far as athiesm making people greedy and bringing about bad charactors is concerned, i also go along with the sheikh. Charactor formation is largely an exercise in self restraint. A religious person in not only ordered to restrain the self, they are also thought how. Yes there usual sticks and carrots are also used-hell for the wicked and heaven for the good. Hell is the worst place one would want to end up and heaven is the best- at least to those who value life (afterlife) and a good life. If credit is to be given when due, i think that it is the religious community that always struggled for those charactors that we now call virtues. Always and everywhere.In our world today it is seen not nice to quote an idea's originators or those who made them popular. I can only think of the religious community to have furthered virtues more than any other. And it can arguably be claimed that most benefactors of mankind were in fact believers including the scientists. Many scientist and philosopher were either priests monks or had a strict religious upbringing. Many think that morality needed not religions and they could have come about even in an athiestic society. I beg to differ. I think if religious people hadnt struggle, upheld and instilled into the large majority of people religious values, they could and would never have come about. Many thinkers would agree that in an arnachy it is not the virtues that will win but the vices. Noticed how even in the most advanced nations a blackout can result in all sorts of sins or illegal activites including killings and rapes and robereies. We benefit today, in my opinion, because the religious values instilled in us have over the years been discovered by men to be good. They were at first only GODLY commands. They were not adopted becuase men reasoned first and then found them good. And lastly religion gives meaning to life and fills our hearts. This it does by putting alot of stress on our relationships. It says life is valuable and compassion is rewarded highly by GOD. In our own religion, in a hadiis, if i can recollect rightfully, a wowman who was a sinner all her life is revealed to have been rewarded with jana for giving water to thirsty dog. Islam is not even dog freindly. What gives meaning to our lives is not materials but how rich our relationships are with one another and with GOD swt. Only religions have always championed for strenghtening those relationships. Because athiesm does not put the stess or promotes virtues over vices it can lead to disorientation-emptiness. You can live for sensations but they will also contribute to emptiness. Notice how the disintergration of the marrige institution, by secular governments, has resulted in the erosion of many of the virtues we have come to know and love. The end result of this secularism has not even been seen yet. It may not be nice when it comes. It will be living like the beast for no amount of force or the treat thereof is able to contain the masses. Religion gives them qualities which they come to love. Which makes their lives important to them and in the eyes of their religions. It gives them hope. That is the meaning of life. I have to say though that i am a peaceful person and i believe that no one has the right to force others to do anything except to free him/herself from their tyranny so i wish all believers and non believers alike a very good life insha ALLAH. PS I am not saying that cara's life is empty or johny b's, i am saying that if yours is rich now, you maybe surprised how much richer life could be with faith.

Originally posted by J.a.c.a.y.l.b.a.r.o: Why don't you start one instead of ku biiring qaar hore u jiray ?? Saaxiib you are probably better placed to succeed at that than i am. I would have been tempted to join forces with people like you however.

Originally posted by Ibtisam: What are your political views?? I will direct you to the one that best suits your views. NGonge your too much trouble! I would like to join one that is willing to fight corruption. You know the usual stuff such as tranparency, rule of just laws, the divission of power and fixed terms in office and competition for jobs including the presidency.

Ngonge kaftanka nagadaa yaakheey Asagaa waxwalba kalawada miyaa ?

quote "Lake Success, Oct. 6 – United Nations delegates today heard a representative of a native Somaliland organization declare his country was not ready for independence and would have to refuse it if the world organization decided to confer it". Thanks che very good read I cant believe that they were against independence. I wonder why ?

Any one know of any somali political parties based in the UK ? I am seeking to join one.

Somaliland is probably better off free from the rest of somalis. Jabuuti has done well for its self and that is good enough for me. The dream is a nightmare. May ALLAH stw grant Somaliland peace and prosperity aamiin.