Smith This map is not mine, is theoratical it shows the Somali territoies as they could be under a federal formula. This sounds very different to '' Gediid, The map makes sense its just maybe you are colour blind LoL I POSTED IT and will repost it to my convinience because it is SENSE, it clearly marks where everyone is AT, right now. Smith you and your map interupted one of the best debates that was going to take place in this forum between Sophist and Oodweyne. Most have seen the map in this very own forum and I like the others chose to ignore it. I see you that you are now trying to distant yourself from it, then why did have to spoil this debate by reposting that ill thought map that you can not even defend? Smith quote Again we need real arguments not the usual SNM this and Somaliland is rich, you call that debating? I think that was Libaax ST was politely tryng to say to but was it you Mr Smith who joined this debate with these words '...why should Somaliland be more important than ASAL or Juba.....heck i doubt that in ten years Somaliland would have as much money as Juba.' Puntlander what's Somaliland's or Juba's money got to do with you? Is this what the 'somaliweyn patriots' are all missing and after? If you want to spice things up, don't complain when things get too spicy for you. I suggest we clear the ground for Sophist and Oodweyne to continue their educational debate. Whereas most of the 'patriots' have gone underground or in limbo somewhere between Arta and Mbagathi you are trying to sell something you can hardly explain let alone defend. I just need someone to explain why federalism could not be done with the original provincial boundries because i believe boundries based on clans territories lead to clan leaders to be the leaders which leads to monarchy. Smith how will secessionist in Somaliland survive when government is formed The same way we survived Siad's givernment, the burden is on you to present something that challenges Somaliland Since we know President Riyaale will be Governor Riyaale do mind telling are the leaders of the 4 other states going to be and how? You can reply on a new topic if you don't mind leaving this one to Sophist and Ooodweyne

Smith can you explain the map of yours, who will rule where and how will it end the disputes withing and outside the states? How will you devide the land, since even referundum will not be able to split empty quoters of land which everyone thinks belongs to them? You are quick to predict what will happen to Somaliland which make me wonder what you would be saying if it was Somalilanders who were in Mbagathi and the rest of were Somalis in relative tranquility. I think Puntuland's limitations are facts you are all starting to deal with. Somaliland's achievements look easy on paper, but only when you have the talents, beliefs and ethics of its people is it possible to copy. 'Somaliland will fail' has the same ring to it as SNM will never get rid of Siad. Don't judge others by your standards and limitations. SSDF is not SNM and Puntland is certainly no Somaliland. I like your 'no one has the devine right to be president' yell. Well, why don't you explain to me what Abdillahi Yusuf is to the Somalilanders who you wish they joined 'Puntlad Administration'? Any students of History knows the establishment of monarchs in Arab countries started with silly little maps like the one you are posting and reposting. I can already see where you want King Caydiid's 2nd to be, but i am sure he has bigger things in his mind than that. I know it has been a long time but i think you are getting desperate. I know the Puntu cow is not producing enough milk for the family, but every farmer down south is wiser and stronger this time to let you milk theirs. Somaliland has never had it so good, why on earth would we want to risk it all when we know and have the scars to remind us what could happened. I am happy with what i've got at the moment and building on it. The 14 th 'peace talk' agreeing to talk to Somaliland is progress but talk is cheap. If thats all they can come with then this 'Puntu pie' map yours is a nonstarter. Rather than you questioning what rights do these individuals have to make major constitutional changes in foreign soil, am amazed you even try to sell to the SOL masses.Federal idea might be new to some but i discarded it ages ago and i think its not worth giving up what we have achieved so far for it. I hope Somalia sorts itself out, soon but i don't think Kenya and other foreign governments involvolved will be for the interest of Somalis. Looking forward to your reply even though it is hard at to look at the map with a straight face.

SOL FAQ cookies are not to track your movement or perfom any functions other than enhance your user message board Yeah right!

SOL FAQ cookies are not to track your movement or perfom any functions other than enhance your user message board Yeah right!

Gediid Walaalo this thread is strictly for those who have escaped from a mental institution or on their way to one LOL. Escaped from one? No, i'm just an asylum seeker, .. a mental asylum seeker;) . Looks like i've finally found a place where I feel right at home. . I think what happened in Somalia in the 80s and 90s lead us all to come to some sort of conclusion. Some left the country and vowed not come back. Some want to break away forever while others want Federal States. Whereas some want their language and culture recognised as equal to any, some like Grinov regret letting things change. Everybody think they are right and only the person who takes all the people's feeling into consideration can come up with the right solution. Grinov i belong to SMN, and i see where you are comming from. I don't think the people who are meeting in Mbagathi have changed, and i am not prepared to say 'tawwakal calallah' and trust them. I think those who think they can deliver peace are deluding themselves because i know true nature of the individuals concerned. Siad and 'hantiwadaag' are long gone, so quit the singing the blues and deal with the reality. Hornafriq this forum is full of individuals who say things to wind up others. Like AJ Timacadeh (bless him ) used to say 'take everything with a pich of salt'. Say what you have to say and don't feel hurt or offended by anyone because you never know the intent or identity of the person posting :eek: .

Baashi, if you did not want Somaliland to be devided why did you ask 'is Somaliland divisible?'. I think you are back-tracking to avoid explaining how you would want it devided. If your feelings for the people of Somaliland are as such that feel concerned for some more than the rest, its ok, i am sure you are not the only one feeling like that. If you try to explain this feeling as 'patriotism' then you are being economical with the truth because there is a minority even in Hargeisa who want to be part of Somaliweyn but your 'patriotism' is only concerned with the ones in parts of 'SSH'. I see this 'lets devide Somaliland' cry as part of land snatching attempt, which started with Siad's moving of people to fertile lands in south Somalia under the cover of Dabadheer droughts. This robbery attempt might have worked if we were still in the refugee camps and not where the Almighty wanted us all to be. Let's quit hiding behing some bushes, make your case and explain how you would devide Somaliland. I say you can not devide it because a majority said so. If Somaliland ended with the British mandate, has the British mandate not ended in Kenya? Why are Kenya's and Djibouti's borders like they have always been? I think you all think Somaliland is easy to dismantle, i hope we never find out what the truth is. Mr Oodweyne, the SNM never missed no opportunity. They passed their tasks with flying colours and they have my respect and gratitude. If the intent was other than removing the occupation of Siad's army, Sophist would not be talking about 500 'innocent' killed but tens of thousands in the villages he listed as part of 92% of Sanaag and surrounding arrears. I do not agree with some of the statements you made especially the last paragragh of your last post. Mr Sophist it is hard to imagine some of your potsts could come from someone who's lineage includes Mr Kombe and MR Kablalla.

I thought Idi Admin 2 and Jamaal Cabdi Nac*sir 11 were the First couple. :confused:

I can't believe some of you left out Maradona. :eek: I think this team could keep the ball for 45 minutes and any of them can score, which one of these would you leave out? ........................PELE(BRAZIL) ................ VAN BASTEN(HOLLAND) ......................................MARADONA(ARGENTINA!) TOSTAO (BAZIL) ZIDANE (FRANCE) SOCRATES (BRAZIL) CRUFF (HOLLAND) ....................... KOHLER (GERMANY) BARESI (ITALY) THURAM (FRANCE) ............................. .SHMICHEAL (DENMARK) I think at their peak these players were the best in their respective positions. Subtitutes Yashin(USSR)-goakeeper Romario(Brazil)striker Zico(Brazil)midfield Brehme(Germany)defender

OG Moti, I will answer your question honestly, i don't know about integrity part . M A Hassan was dainted hero and a flawed genious. No one doubts he fought a noble cause with nothing but good intent for all Somalis. We must not down-play or forget the harm he did to Somalis who did not agree with him. Most heroes of Islam (including the Prophet SAW and Salaxdiin) signed agreements with their enemies a fact which most of Mullah's follewers never accepted. If we only 'judge' people by fights they had with foreigners, then Gen. Caydiid too becomes one. Someone who has not seen of felt Caydiid's nasty side might consider him a total hero. I think it was right to fight with and against these two men.

I know a well-informed brother who believes the liver problems among Somalis was originally caused by eating food donated as aid from abroad and not by bad diet as popularly believed. He believes the food brought in from US in the 70s and 80s was deliberately infected (especially during the wars and droughts). I used to be sceptical about this, until I heard about Hungarian doctors who were caught in Libya infecting their pacients with the HIV virus. As Muslims we should accept what befalls on us but I firmly believe the source of the Liver problems is more sinister than what most people think. Libin i'll post more detail inshallah i hope some else will help you in the mean time.

I know a well-informed brother who believes the liver problems among Somalis was originally caused by eating food donated as aid from abroad and not by bad diet as popularly believed. He believes the food brought in from US in the 70s and 80s was deliberately infected (especially during the wars and droughts). I used to be sceptical about this, until I heard about Hungarian doctors who were caught in Libya infecting their pacients with the HIV virus. As Muslims we should accept what befalls on us but I firmly believe the source of the Liver problems is more sinister than what most people think. Libin i'll post more detail inshallah i hope some else will help you in the mean time.

Baashi I would not include you in the group of people are tribalists but pretend not be, i think you are one of the ones who are not aware they are tribalists. On what basis would you want Somaliland to be devided, is it tribal?. What drives your attempts to dismiss everyone who writes anything positive about Somaliland as 'in the pocket' of Somaliland Govt? If you were motivivated by anything other than what is obvious to us, you would not worry about people who live in peace and who getting on with each other and ignore the troubled souls from Mudug all the way to Kenya. When will your 'Somalinimo' talk about the people being forced to take Tanzanian nationality because of suffering or that is ok as long as they live the land for you? Somaliland can not be devided because the people have voted for withdrawing the whole of it from the union. I'm sure you would have respected this vote if it went the other way.

Yusufaddie no need to apologise because i never saw your deleted post and i know Idi Admin 2 will not let you say something that offends me. Hornafriq if young Somalilanders organise themselves and present an Islamic alternative that abandons the multy party rubish, we could have a government we deserve in 5 years time. Whereas the Mbagathi agreement promises decades of rule by people who support the warlords. So the facts on the ground are: It is easier to introduce Islamic institutions in Somaliland than in the Somalia or Federal States. If there is a country that has the right to moan about the Ethios, then it is Sudan. They have suffered from years outside aggression and countless attempts to distabilise them, but Sudanese are smart people who know their priorites. If Sudan stayed as part of Egypt or reunited with it, today they would have been a part of country that depends on Washington for its survival. No weapons and money from all over the world, no cruise missile attacks and no Amhar supported SPLA, has managed to dent the will of these proud people. I suggest Somaliland and Somalia settle their differences, because two frendly countries living side by side are stronger than one big country full of people who are at war and don't trust each other. Ethios will always take advantage of disputes among Somalis and it is up to Somalia's leaders to decide how they want to settle this issue. I have families all the way to Jigjiga and i'm fully aware of their plight and the'll get my help when i've taken care of number 1. I just have to make sure I don't return to the refugee camps because i know if i was still there today i would not see or hear about Somalinimo. Hornafrique i hope that answered your question. Please can you answer mine. For someone who supported the 'peace talks' where do you stand on the TNG President( ) v Prime minister dispute over the Mbagathi agreement? Do you support the Presidents refusal to sign it and where does this leave the TNG? Has Mbagathi the gathering managed to split Somalis even more? Ps nice pictures, the chap looks like President i have to admit that.

Hear hear Yusufaddie, a Khalifate might solve Somalia's problems but Ethios will still to try ruin it if you let them. Matkey Is Ethiopia responsible for what your people have done to the inter-riverine region people No Sir. What we have here are 'patriots' who want to turn back the clock, to the dacades when they used to have an unfair and unjust advantage over everyone. Now that the reality is slowly sinking in, that this will never happen using force, 'nationalisms' is the new badge they carry . Hornafriq, if President Kibaki or Mr Kiplagat for that matter can 'solve' anything for Somalis, they would have started by showing good example in the NFD. Before you go accusing others please remember the plight of Somalis in Kenya who are suffering even more these days under your 'new world order' friends. Gediid ..he (Abdiqasbaaye) is merely responsible of Mogadisho hotel.. For the first and I hope the only time you got it wrong. The gentleman controls the Mogadishu zoo as well. Thats why they call him President Abdiqasbaaye of Zoomalia.

Lander Do these guys ever honestly ever stop complaining The simple answer is no. No one put it better than Ethiopia's envoy at the Somali 'peace talks' when he replied to similar statements by saying '' These are accusations are baseless propagated by people who blame their differences, even with their wives, on Ethiopia'' They might not be baseless but he got a point.

Drastc situation require drastic measures. If some people think what happened in the 8os and 90s is no big deal we beg to differ. 12 years ago we decided to take a different route and Alxandullilah we have been proved right. The one thing that pleases me most is the way we never lost our humanity even after most horrific circumtances. If others are all very forgiving how come we don't see the proof of it on the ground? I just find it amazing when people who support Puntland can lecture Somalilanders on tribalism and unity. If someone thinks Puntland is the solution thats fine, but they must have the honesty to admit the reasons and tribal base of it. The differences among Somalis is more than in accents. If you walked into a room full of people from Hargeisa and ask who supported the SNM, you are certain to get someone who did. I have never met someone who openly admit they supported or paid money to the other alphabet soup of movements in Somalia when we know for sure they did. You are all welcome to prove me wrong.

Samurai I don't think some people eps Samatar should have been at the gathering. Was the gathering free for all or some 'minder' decided who goes in? If Somaliland had decided to send representitives, where would it leave Jama Yare and crew, and what does this say about the whole gathering? It was bad enough to meet in Kenya and have an Ethopian envoy present, but what purpose was served by letting Samatar table a constitution? Were any Islamists present and would they have been allowed to present their ideas? I think this shows who run the show in Mbagathi and if it works, then they have succeeded in shaping the future of Somalia in the next few decades.

Samurai, is it fair to say you longer consider Samatar's clergy 'a harmonisation team'? :confused: .

Mobb Depp quote; " This guy ain't serious so don't even respond to his posts na'mean. Ignore this fella na'mean'. This applies to what's his face and his peers in Mbagathi.

Sophist i said mass graves 'up and down Somali shores' and I ment what I said. As long as we agree not only the 'military junta' was responsible for the crimes comitted, then we are getting somewhere. Were any of the people fighting and killing for a creation of a feredal states? If not, how could you seriously expect us to believe it to be the solution to the problem?

Baashi, I am not a big fan of Riyaale but one thing I know this chap never ran all the way to Kenya when the cookie crumbled. He stayed and was prepared to take his punishment unlike some tough talking 'patriots' who are now in Mbagathi . Either Riyaale is a brave chap or he knew the true nature of 'Qaldaans'. Deep down you all know the mass graves up and down Somali shores cannot be blamed on 'military junta' or 'civil war'. Anyone who did not take part in the war against innocent civilians should not make excuses for it.

i always knew there were some wild pigs present in Mbagathi . Lander, I think AJT was joking .................................. someone pls show Xalimo7 where the other forums are :mad:

bashi quote: "They = Military junta that used to ruled the country" Another little formula just to make yourself feel confortable. It would have been better to ask what was ment by 'THEY'. To me 'THEY' includes the people in Xamar who used to point to houses of notherners to soldiers. They too shattered lives. If Somalinimo exists this was when it was needed not now. I've noticed your other little formula (Somaliland = Hargeisa + Togdheer - Buuhoodle) has changed. How comes I don't hear of Awdal these days? Like Sam Cooke once sang 'don't know much about trigonometry' I just say : One down two to go. .

It might be sad but one thing that guarantees a seat at the 'Somali Unity Conference' is ability to do this sort of killing. Saying 'it is sad' does not solve anything. The doc is dead, the warlord is at the conference. :mad:

Shujui I enjoyed reading that, infact i've read an article on Mr Baraka when he was in London a few moths back and I was planning to post it on your 911 hoax topic. One of Mr Baraka's poem is called something like 'extermination blues' which i think is what he would like to do to the Yids at Fox.