Hornafrique So my question is if seccession was out of the question, would we not compromise on people who are more like the aforementioned candidate? If that was the case then I would back Ittihaad brothers and no one else. I have lost faith in all Somali politicians and all the people who want to be the 'next president' have not convinced me that they would not make 'mistakes' others have. Somalis have all to gain and nothing to lose if they are brave enough to back the only honest group who openly campaign for what we hope would fall into our laps. I would compromise if people like Ittihad were in full control and proved themselves with actions. In the mean time.. you know where to find me.

Check this one from the Somali Fisheries Society web page

Thanks and congratulations Ameenah you said Laakin, it doesn't mean that you don't seek redress .. but that you do it in way that agrees with the Islaimic teachings Here is the situation; I (as a member of group X) am being oppressed by a King Y, and have decided to fight for my rights along with the other Xs. How would I do it 'in a way that agrees with Islamic teaching' since every members of other groups are standing aside watching or busy taking advantage of my situation?

Nin Yaaban, you are not the girl's Dad, are you?

Conscious thanks for that very informative post, questions i want to ask are: 1. How would people like the Kurds in Turkey who are marginalised and not allowed to speak or study their language supposed to fight for their rights without being classified as nationalist/tribalist or racist? 2. Is there any situation where people could unite to defend their rights as a race, tribe, nation or cab drivers for that matter?

People let me ask you one question before I call it a day, what did you expect Edna to come back with since you all think she's comming back empty handed? As for the comments on 'fundamentalisms', I think it is wrong thing to say considering the current atmosphere.

Bari the people in Galgacyu were famous for bringing their own chairs to cinemas, does this apply for the internet cafes too or is the UNHCR carpenter the solution you were all waiting for?

Samurai are these sort of things something to write home about? Are organisations like Oxfam or UNHCR something to be proud of and to be called 'great news'?. We live in a the 21 century and I find articled and post like this one embarrasing and nothing to be jealus about. If Somalilanders were so easy to please and had such low expectations, they would not be writing the articles demanding better services and human rights from the authorities. Nevertheless, well done for the 15 internet cafes and will the SOL members in Galkacyu please stand up!!!

Yusufadie, lots of questions from you bro, who do you work for?? I think only Abdiqassim can explain how he spent the money donated to 'rebuild the country'. If Abdiqassim and the other warlords could produce a budget that could be studied and scrutinized (ala The Republic of Somaliland), we wouldn't be asking ourselves these sort of questions, would we? Anyways i am certain the people who are ruled by the violent hoodlums are greatful that you are asking the questions they can't dare ask.

Who do you think you are kidding Mr Hitler?. FOUR REASONS WHY ABDILLAHI YUSUF 'YEEY' SHOULD NOT BE TRUSTED. 1. He betrayed freedom fighters and became an agent for the Italians colonists. 2. He betrayed Somalis in 1977 and secretely supported Ethiopians. 3. He betrayed and killed some senior SSDF members. 4. Betrayed and attacked al Ijtixaad Islamia to gain control of Bari. They call him 'yeey' he will betray again before dying like one!! :eek: .

Yusufadie, the only major Muslim owned construction co i've heard of is the one owned by the Ladens (brother Yusufadie you can research the co name yourself ). OG Moti, lets assume the story up there and your observations are correct: 1. What do you want Somaliland politicians to do about the deal and Ethios in general? 2. What can we and civilians in Somaliland do about it? Hornafriqe 1. Ethio are part of the 'technical committee' in control of the Mbagathi gathering, how come we never hear you moaning about this? 2. Since 'your all dancing-all singing 'very clever' President Abdiqasim quit the Mbagathi gathering complaining about Ethio's involvement, where do you stand now?

"Col Yusuf believed that the Somali army, when defeated, would – out of frustration – topple the Barre regime," writes Dualeh in his biography, From Barre to Aideed. In the book, Dualeh writes that officers from Yusuf's ********** clan had no confidence in Barre so they "decided to sabotage the war effort". While tens of thousands of heroic Somalis were losing their lives fighting to liberate their brothers from Ethiopians, this depraved man and his insidious supporters were plotting agaist them?? :mad: . How disgusting can peopple get?

Mystery, looks like we are not the only ones who see through the 'patriotic' scroungers from the barren lands of north-east Somalia. Boy oh boy, where are they gonna go now?

Bari, its not only the 'warlords' that were (or are) responsible for the crimes that you all love to call 'civil war'. It is well known that what took place in Galkacyu and Mughdisho included icidents like former classmates (who knew each other all their lives) shooting and leaving one another for dead, neighbours killing each other all because they had axe to grind and there was no authority to stop them. These sort of murders and maimings was not the work of members of USC or SSDF, but pure evil deeds by normal everyday people we meet and greet everyday. I just don't agree with people who everything before 91 is Siad's fault and everything after it is warlord's. The reality is a lot of people have a lot to answer for in what was brutal and shameful decade in Somalia, whether you want to call them 'bloodholic' or not. What do NW Somalis(on SOL) think of Col.Riyaale? The NSS Commander responsible for thousands of torturing and killings? Loyal to Afweyn until the last day. And now he is the 'elected' leader of those same people? How can can you say we want to put Morgan/Gaani in jail when you have the opportunity to put Riyaale in jail and dont? Justice starts at home. No one is sking you to jail your warlords, just admit they gained power by spilling blood unlike Riyaale's election. I would not vote for Riyaale, infact i would not vote at all, but Riyaale is symbol of Somalanders forgiving the crimes of the past. I doubt it very much if he was caught by anyone other than the SNM that he would have been left unharmed. The difference between Riyaale and the warlords that govern you is; HE DID NOT GET TO POWER BY FORCE AND SOMALILANDERS HAVE A CHANCE OF KICKING HIM OUT PEACEFULLY. He did not get to power using violence or a malitia and if Somalilander do not want him anymore they have a chance to kick him and his government out in the next elections. He was pardoned like everyone who worked for the Siad regime and chose politics using peaceful means unlike the warlords who still roam your neck of woods. How you can call him a warlord i would never know, but if you want to solve your problems there is no better example than Somalilanders. I see that you no longer support Abdillahi Yusuf's brutal rule, i am sure you are not the only one, the question is what can you do about it? :confused:

MALASIA PERMITS TEXT MESSAGE DIVORCE BBC NEWS 27 JULY 2003 (The text message must be clear and unambiguous to qualify) Getting a quickie divorce has taken on a whole new meaning in Malaysia after it was decided that a man can divorce his wife with a text message. The government's adviser on religious affairs, the man who counsels Malaysia's Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad, said as long as the message was clear and unambiguous it was valid under Islamic Sharia law. "SMS is just another form of writing," Dr Abdul Hamid Othman was quoted by the New Straits Times daily newspaper as saying. The decision follows a Malaysian court's ruling on Thursday in favour of a man who served divorce on his wife via a text message. Sharia judge Mohamad Fauzi Ismail declared that the divorce declaration was valid and that as such the marriage between the plaintiff Azida Fazlina Abdul Latif and defendant Shamsudin Latif was annulled, the Utusan Malaysia newspaper reported. Mr Shamsudin was said to have sent Ms Azida a text message saying: "If you do not leave your parents' house, you'll be divorced". Although such a notification of divorce may seem astonishingly brief to some, under Islamic law men are allowed to divorce their wives simply be saying the word 'talaq' - I divorce you - three times

Smith I didn't want to join this thread because we have here before and Somaliland speaks for itself and it was nothing to do with Bari's post. What everyone knows for sure is: 1. Unlike Somaliland, all of Somalia is being forcibly governed by gun-totting criminals whom you call 'leaders'. 2. Unlike Somaliland, the past 2 years we have seen all of Somalia including Puntland has been at war one way or another and the victors ending up as the new dictators of some regions. 3. Somaliland's elected leaders will have to face polls and peaceful change of power is likely compared to Somalia's Abdillahi Yusuf, Aideed and Co. Bari and Smith, the tag 'bloodholic' is not without substance. The rape, looting, and mayhem that is still taking place and the pitiable 'leaders' of Somalia gathered at Mbagathi by another African nation should have left you two hanging your heads in shame. Whereas Tuur and Cigal are things of the past in Somaliland, Abdillahi Yusuf of Puntland is still there (while his victims are in Somaliland) leaving you submissive ones pretending that you chose him to be your leader, how sad indeed. Your support for the power hungry warlord is obviously based on clan issues, but how long will it be before the people want change and how can it be achieved? Lies, damned lies and statistics provided by Bari can't hide the fact that only Somaliland has been peaceful over the recent years. Somaliland is the only multi-clan place and governed by multy-clan government. I doubt that Riyaale would be the leader of Somaliland if clan elders chose who would rule over us which shows progress we have made. Bari, Al ijtixaad Islamiya were the best people among you and it is a pleasure to have them in Hargeisa. If I was you, i would support them rather than the murderous bunch you are loyal to.

Cheers for that Samurai, good story and deserved better headline than that . The story about Puntland refugees reluctant to go home got a 'booming economy' headline and the wonderful achievements of people of Burco gets 'neglected Somali city' headline, whats the world comming to? :rolleyes:

Hornafrique , what is being discussed in Kenya has nothing to do with a Khalif and Somaliland is not breaking away from an Islamic state, far from it. I think Somalinimo has nothing to do with a Khalifate because a Khalifate would include Eritreans, Oromos Swahilis others Muslims around us, unlike what you always preach in here. You have to decide wether you are a 'nationalist' or an Islamist :confused: . I don't see Mbagathi leading to a Islamic rule in Somalia, if you do, I would be pleased if you shared it with us. Mbagathi might even lead to Somalia being kicked out of the Arab League :eek: if you believe the AL's envoy's threats.

Hornafrique off course i do pay attention to Somalia and all neighbouring countries . When Somalia settles down (inshaAllah), it will be my 'numero uno' foreign destination . Another reason is I wanted others in here to see a different side of story to the one being presented by some in the forum. Its important that Somalia finds peace and stability but it must be in the interest of Somalis and no one else. All the countries and organisations that are present in Mbagathi have their own agenda and it is foolish to think 'they are all supporting Somalia'. Peace would be wonderful, but what is the worse that could come out this gathering?. Hornafrique, if you believe the little piece you posted, then Somaliland will become a burden on Somalia's resources and wealth so please make sure it does not return even if it begs to. . Life is tough enough as it is and Somaliland does not need its problems compounded by neglect, mismanagement, instability and events that have become the norm in this part of Africa. We've got the same Sun , the same Sand only the Somalis are slightly different. :cool: . :cool: :cool: Oodweyne thanx for your assesment, always a pleasure to read your posts.

The Nation (Nairobi) July 21, 2003 Posted to the web July 21, 2003 Ken Opala Nairobi Somali delegate Hawa Kheri protests after being thrown out of the talks at the Kenya College of Communications Technology, Mbagathi, Nairobi. She was one of the 170 delegates ejected for allegedly using fake cards to register. It is about 11am on Friday. Somali delegates are clustered in groups. The ambience is relaxed yet the voices are mere murmurs. Four groups are in the tea room on the second floor of the Kenya College of Communication Technology (KCCT) hotel while outside at the entrance, on the tarmac parking bay, are perhaps half a dozen people. About four diplomatic cars are parked outside the hotel. The "observers" are from Egypt, Italy, Djibouti, United Nations, Arab League, Ethiopia, the UK, and the US. In low tones, these diplomats coach the delegates on how to influence the deliberations. This is characteristic of the Somali peace and reconciliation talks at the KCCT, Mbagathi, in Nairobi's outskirts, nine months after former President Daniel arap Moi assembled protagonists around a ceasefire table. But who are are these "observers"? "People are here to pursue own interests. In fact, one would say that Somalia is up for grabs," says a delegate from Somaliland, the renegade region whose "head of State" has snubbed the Nairobi talks. Mr Awad Ashara, spokesperson for Puntland region, talks of vested interests at play "outside the meeting rather than inside". Kenya is impartial, he told this writer earlier in the week. "Kiplagat is a very, very compassionate and respectable, conciliatory person, he is an all-inclusive," he says of the Kenya Government's appointed mediator, Mr Bethuel Kiplagat. As the Somaliland delegate talks, an Italian envoy in Kenya emerges from the building sandwiched between five elderly Somalis, all chatting away in Italian. This writer tries to stop him for a question or two but he says he is in a hurry. "Call me in the office and let's see whether we can set up an appointment." A representative of the Arab League gestures, saying: "The talks are going ahead all right but there are little things here and there we feel strongly about." He abruptly pauses, stealing a glance at an approaching delegate. Then his voice drops, and he momentarily stops mid-sentence until the passer-by disappears. "We are not comfortable with the federal system and we want Arabic language to be retained in Somalia. These two issues are top on our agenda". He adds: "The unity of the Somali people has to be highlighted. This is very important". The observer has made it known to the delegation that Somalia's continuity in the Arab League depended on whether or not the country retained Arabic as the official language. According to a British envoy, the Somalia negotiations "show a bit of a way to go". But there was hope, he said. Interestingly, the presence of the US at KCCT has been erratic. However, an American of Somali origin has been constantly monitoring the discussions. The ghosts of foreign interference have refused to leave the backyard. Last Tuesday, a number of delegates accused the Egyptian ambassador to Somalia of backing the current President of the Transition National Government, Mr Abdikassim Salat. Mr Salat has been the lone voice against federalism, a stance that has infuriated his critics. In a letter to the just-concluded African Union summit in Maputo, Mozambique, dated July 9, 2003, a number of delegates asked the Union to banish Mr Salat for "being against" Nairobi negotiations. About 21 signatories said since the Nairobi talks had made breakthrough in adopting a charter and laid the structure for a transition government that would guide them for the next four years, Mr Salat should not speak as president. His mandate, they said, had been cancelled by the new charter. "The TNG president failed to implement the charter (that asked for federalism) for the two years he has been in power. In fact, that is why he is opposed to the charter," says Mr Ashara, who is also Puntland's minister for Justice. But Mr Salat blames his predicament on neighbouring Ethiopia which, he says, has sponsored Somali rebels to frustrate his reconstruction efforts. "In short, Ethiopia's strategy is to undermine the re-emergence of a strong, united and vibrant Somalia," he says. Some people call the negotiations "the scramble for Somalia", the Horn of Africa country reduced by militia to a clutter of regions. The ousting of strongman Siad Barre on January 26, 1991, opened a pitched struggle of sorts. His adversaries went for the spoils on failing to agree on power-sharing. They grabbed regions populated by their own clans. Unlike other African countries strewn by multi-lingual and ethnic loyalties, Somali is of one tribe: Somali. Islam is the only religion while the culture is distinctly homogeneous. Yet its own survival is in the hands of a social order knit together by clan loyalties and political disorientation, all wrapped up by decades of dictatorship since independence in 1960. Soldier Barre seized power on October 21, 1969, following the assassination of then President Abdirashid Ali Shermarke a week earlier. According to From Barre to Aideed, a book by former Somali ambassador to Kenya Hussein Ali Dualeh, Somalia's political order is based on kinship clans, namely: ****** , **** , Dir, ***** , Digil and ********* . And, the clanship is a weave of sub-clans. Thus conflicts in the population is traced to the multiplicity of political parties, each of them drawing support and loyalty from specific clans or alliances. Currently, 60 clan-based political factions straddle the country. So obvious have been fears that the clan loyalties threaten to balkanise the country, and historically, some of the big groups, such as the ****** , have insisted on cessation. Now without a central administration, Somalia is balkanised into 16 regions, each led by a warlord. Mr Asmara estimates the militia force at 100,000 soldiers. The peace talks enter a crucial phase tomorrow. The 400 delegates will nominate 351 MPs who will in turn elect a transitional president and Speaker of the House and two vice-Speakers. These officials will have four years to oversee the disarmament of the militias, pursue reconciliation and lay the ground for a popular government. Somali leaders expect the international community to fund the transition. Yet to be worked out is the amount of finances required to bring order in the country, but if the apparent involvement of foreign nations in the mediation indicates their interest, the assistance should be readily available. Puntland President Abdullahi Yusuf wants the federal forces to be blended with an international force with the mandate to mop up illegal guns. "If we do not do that, we will fall in the way of Salat. He has been holed up in Mogadishu and he cannot administer because he is unable to implement the charter," he says. "Well, we want to immediately establish a government here and immediately disarm people and pacify the country". The President of Somaliland snubbed the talks. Mr Kiplagat says Somaliland leaders declined reconciliation overtures. His predecessor, Mr Elijah Mwangale, travelled to Hargeisa, Somaliland's capital to convince the leadership to take part in the negotiations but they declined. Mr Kiplagat himself sent a letter to the Somaliland administration but he received no reply. Yet the talks are riven with fears that some delegates and non-governmental organisations are uncomfortable with the likely end of hostilities because that would threaten their easy money. However, Kenyan scholar, Prof Ali Mazrui, says Somaliland should be let to go its way, for it has resources to sustain itself. "The situation in Somalia now is a culture of rules without rulers, a stateless society," he said last week. "There is order there, they have the potential to survive". One day, he says, Somaliland will organise and get back to the larger Somalia.

'American Values' comes to mind whenever i see those pictures. This comes in the same week as a report saying there are people (MUSLIMS) being tortured to death in Guantanamo (Cuba) by Americans, some of them not even adults. I know the Hussein brothers might have done a lot of bad things to Iraqis, but what have done to Americans or British to justify that? Did the people who released those pictures take into consideration, the feelings of remaining members of the brother's families esp the daughters, sisters and mother? Even as someone who knows Iraqis and Iranians who suffered under the Saddam regime those pictures spoilt my day. I don't think we should be reproducing such pictures if we think they were wrong in the the first place. The same goes to some tasteless stories I always see in this forum like the ones saying 'Dr xx says YY about Islam' and then asking us what we think. One thing you all seem to have ignored is the brothers were thought to have been betrayed by Saddam's cousin for money. Blood might be thicker than water but for some, nothing beats hard cash.

Nin-Yaaban Grinov really fits into that discription Funny you should say that. Anyways, the psycho list is almost full but i am still missing on or two members.

Smith, stop believing your own hipe dear child. You putting too much faith into people who do not trst each other to meet in their own country. How many weeks are we going to listen to your barking at Somaliland? Unless Mbagathi figures out a way of making us fall in love with Somalia, it ain't gonna work. When we say NO we mean NO and not NOH, if thats what causing confusion.

Hornafrique As you know Somalia is almost exclusively populated by ethnic Somalis..... No i didn't know that, who would you consider as not an ethnic Somali and percentage of the population do they make up? .............................................. WE MORE THAN SAND ON THE SEA SHORE, WE MORE THAN NUMBERS YEAH YEAH! - BOB MARLEY

i think he is 'innocent'. If he is found to be guilty then i volunteer to take care of the brother's wife while he serves time free of charge .