^^Wanaagsan Yes bro I think they're Sudanese from Wad Medani

Adxa iyo Fitrina waa jiraan labada Iidoode Iyagana sunnaa lagu ismoo mu'akad weeyaane Ajri xoogleh baa laga helaa ururka maantaase Markaasaa Ibleyskiyo Kufriga laga adkaadaaye Oo aad albaabbada Janada orod ku gaadhaaye Ilaahay ka baqa kaasi waa ereygi weynaaye Jaamaac ‘Gacmadheere’ - Ilaahay ka baqa Have a good one people.

Originally posted by NGONGE: If we assume that these tribes do have leaders that issue “laws†and control the conduct of their own tribes (a farfetched assumption might I add), how does their power extend to you and me when we don’t even reside in their realm? These tribal leaders do not play an active part in my daily life - neither do I wish for that - but there're lots of people who are in contact with them. There are people over here though whom I consider to be my tribal elders even as the youngest of boys, I've never had to sit or meet them apart from the odd functions. I do believe however the traditional leaders back home to have more powers than you give them credit for. We may be outside their realm, but don't forget the part they played in that or else no reason to blame qabiil (as if it was the only thing responsible) for the destruction of the whole country. If on the other hand, we suppose that such leaders are mere representatives of the tribe (clan) and have no power over individuals in their own tribes, how do these individuals toe the line? Why? Ngonge over here, I believe it's partly the image and situations you meet these elders in the first place. They may visit the moment you 'land' and take the lead when organising anything from funeral or wedding etc The day they come for help you feel obliged without even hearing the sales pitch. Originally posted by NGONGE: These others, though “relatives†(depending on their proximity of course) only obligate the person to loyalty for religious and moral reasons. This loyalty however, should not extend beyond giving a helping hand and looking out for the economic welfare (or social should the necessity arise) I think some tree-hugging qaxootis will say that too is part of qabyaalad, where do you personally draw the line as to who is a "relative" and who is not?. I agree with you on giving giving a helping hand though. Originally posted by NGONGE: The tribal approach on the other hand, limits one’s horizons, goals and ability to realise these goals. Not if your set target were partly tribal in the first place.

Ngonge whats up with the cross-examination? One or two questions.. fine but you remind me of the lady on today's news whos house was flooded.. where do I begin? Originally posted by NGONGE: Now to the idea of being a “Somaliâ€! Can one be a Somali and endorse the concept of Qabiil at the same time? Yes I don't see nothing wrong with that at all and that's what I said to MsWord. What Qabiil means to me is personal not even my brothers agree with interpretation of it. Everyone in here might say the same but I find it some people's views and behaviour slightly hypocritical. For example, this pan-Somali online community discussion forum - with strict rules on clanism - has a topic titled "Somalis are better than Arabs". The other day one member was demanding another to wish all 'Malis' a happy new year and not only 'Landers'. What makes it only 'Malis' not more or less I ask? No wonder the Pope says his 'peace on earth in 100+ languages. Let me try to explain the Qabiil - Somali concept using the recent Tsunami disaster. It's understandable why this and other Somali sites are appealing for donations to help Somalis even though they are not the worst affected victims. If it happened where my qabiil live then that's where I would be concerned with most and if it happened to cousins neighbourhood then I would be even more worried. This is not to say I was'nt shocked or touched by images of the disaster. In brief I see my qabiil closer members of the extended Adam's family. When the sister above says that she’s a “Somali†first and her tribe comes second (which you seem to have agreed with though you proceeded to contradict)! Saxiib she didn't give example of what she meant by that but I still don't see anything wrong with what she said. I think she only talked about how she sees her qabiil as part of her identity and unlike some in here, I don't see any hypocrisy in her views. What makes you think I contradicted her? Does that mean that when the state clashes with your tribe, you’ll forsake your tribe for the bigger and better idea of the state? Will it be the other way round? Not necessarily. There is always wrong and right and using my earlier example, if my cousin fights my brother it doesn't mean I'll join my brothers side even though he's wrong ... It depends .. other answers later sometime..

Originally posted by Jumatatu: Smith sxb in the CV of General Cadde could u add please during his time in Canada he was a pump attendant later promoted to cashier in a Petrol Station. And am serious am not joking it was an important part of his life....and hey everyone in Otttawa knows it....aight...it aint secret...blud...! Never mind his "blue collar" lifestyle in Canada, why is his "brown pants" period in Somaliland not included?

web page

^^If this 25 000 demo is true, how come no Somali sites reported it?

news24.com 08/01/2005 10:49 - (SA) Mogadishu, Somalia - Thousands of Somalis marched through Mogadishu, condemning the African Union's plans to send peacekeepers to help ensure the safe return of a new government currently based in neighboring Kenya. Some 25 000 men, women and children demonstrated in the capital after Friday's prayers, spurred on by Islamic clerics who are unhappy with plans to deploy the African force intended to help restore order in the anarchic nation. Hundreds of heavily armed militias loyal to the Islamic clerics guarded the protesters. The influential clerics have been projecting themselves as an alternative to the numerous warlords running a patchwork of clan-based fiefdoms in Somalia and espouse a government based on fundamentalist Islam. The Horn of Africa nation has had no central government since 1991, when opposition leaders ousted dictator Mohamed Siad Barre. Then they turned on each other, deepening the anarchy in this nation of seven million. Somalis should prepare for a holy war against foreign peacekeepers, Sheikh Sharif Ahmed Mohamed, head of the Supreme Council of the Islamic Courts, told demonstrators. "Remember what happened in Somalia in 1993," Sharif said, referring to the killing of 18 American troops in the country during a mission to detain a former Somali warlord and his aides. The killing led to a US pullout from Somalia, triggering the eventual withdrawal of the United Nations peacekeeping mission. Only Somalis can solve problems in their country, Sharif said while calling on recruits to join the Islamic courts' militia force with a warning: "look at what is going on in Iraq". The clerics' show of strength is a major challenge to Somalia's government, which was sworn in Friday in Kenya, where it is based because the Somali capital is considered too dangerous. The new government, formed after complex negotiations between warlords, clan leaders and civil society representatives, is negotiating a safe return to Somalia. Somalia's civil war has left more than half a million dead, two million driven from their homes and 1.5 million refugees in neighboring countries. The new government has no civil service, treasury or even buildings to meet in.

^ Originally posted by waayeel: cirka iyo dhulka? we have a minister for the skies? and one for planet earth? i think they mean Airlines and Railways? do we have them? Nah mate, I think the Wasiirka Cirka iyo Dhulka will be Khat d'Affair

Originally posted by MsWord: I realized my Qabiil is part of me and I can't change which one I'm born into but neither can I change the fact that I'm somali. Religion aside I chose to be identified as a Somali first and my qabiil second. I don't see nothing wrong with that either. I can understand why some people are not comfortable with qabiil but not the ones who champion 'Somalism'. The easiest of explainig the way I see things is; moi first , then my brothers, cousins, qabiil, somalis. After that neighbouring 'cousins' of Somalis like Afars Muslims and so forth and so on.. The people in here who think otherwise need to explain to me why it's wrong to identify or see the 'qabiil bridge' between distant cousins and others Somalis? What makes 'Somalism' right and 'Qabiilism' wrong? Originally posted by Xoogsade: MsWord , I am tempted to ask if your resolution includes not to marry a man from another tribe then? Let me guess, you're one of who would marry from any tribe as long as it's Somali, right?

Originally posted by rokko: Wasiirka Cirka iyo Dhulka Seriously WTF :confused: Where will his office be? Originally posted by Jumatatu: This is the one I love most we have a minister responsible for 'duurjoogs' now: Dalxiiska & Duurjoogta . I think some people have spent too many weekends in the Maasai-Mara.

^^ Thanks for that, I take back the 'atheism' comment and apologise but can he be a Muslim if he does not believe in the 'hereafter'? The Almighty will be the judge of that.

Wasiirka Cirka iyo Dhulka Ibraahin Adan Xasan Wasiirka Batroolka Yusuf Maxamed Axmed Xaraare :confused: Topic: Breaking News-New Somali government formed. Why don't you change that to: Somali News-New breaking government formed.

Labour and British Muslims: Can we dream the same dream? by Mike O`Brien MP Are some Muslims about to vote against the best friend they have ever had in government? Can people really claim that the Labour Government is a friend of Muslims after Iraq? The answer may surprise you. Understandably, many Muslims are very angry about the war. Traditionally they have supported Labour but some are now switching to the Liberal Democrats, Respect or even the Tories. But the real question is whether there is a danger that anger may be causing Muslims to vote against their own long-term interests? Putting a cross on a ballot paper is much more than just about expressing anger; a General Election is not some kind of referendum on the Governments` record on one issue. It is about making a balanced political judgment between political parties and deciding which of them should have a majority in a Parliament. It is about the kind of country you want to live in. It is about considering what a Labour Government rather than a Conservative Government has done and will do in the future for Muslims. I suggest that a vote, which weighs in the balance the long-term implications for Muslims, is the right approach. We all know the importance of Iraq. Indeed, some people will try to convince you that it is the only issue that matters. Most however, will look beyond Iraq to also consider other issues such as the fate of the Palestinians. Despite the many setbacks over the last few years, the creation of a Palestinian state is a cause that the Prime Minister has repeatedly raised with great conviction and never abandoned. He has even declared it to be his personal priority. It is the key to peace in the Middle East. He has long advocated a two state solution, Palestine and Israel, side by side, both at peace. The reality is that the only way a Palestinian state will be created is if Israel is prepared to concede land it currently occupies on the West Bank and Gaza. Whether we in Britain like it or not, the reality of the modern world is that only the Americans can influence Israel. And it seems only Tony Blair has any influence with the Americans. Can anyone seriously imagine that Michael Howard or Charles Kennedy would be able to significantly influence George W. Bush? If they do, then they need to join the real world. The Prime Minister who has the most political clout to help the Palestinians is Tony Blair. No one claims that the creation of a Palestinian state is going to be an easy ride for Tony Blair or for the Labour government but we are willing to stay the distance, no matter how difficult it gets. The Labour government and the Prime Minister have a record of arguing strongly that the creation of a Palestinian state is essential to peace and justice, and that any settlement must be based upon land being given for peace in line with UN Resolution 242. When the Americans and Israelis refused to negotiate with Yasser Arafat, Tony Blair promptly sent myself as the Foreign Office Minister, to visit Yasser Arafat in the Muquata in Ramallah to convey the message that we had not abandoned him. Tony Blair’s message was clear: we will work with the elected leader of the Palestinians, even if the Americans will not. On the issue of the assassination of the leaders of Hamas, Jack Straw as the Foreign Secretary was the first Western politician to condemn Israel’s actions. Soon after the recent US elections, Tony Blair travelled to Washington to make it very clear that he wanted to see the road map to a Palestinian state opened up. If we are to have a Palestinian state in the next five years, then a key player in creating it will be the British Prime Minister, who will need to have world influence. In practice, only Tony Blair has the required credentials and track record. The reality remains that with George W. Bush in the White House, neither Charles Kennedy nor Michael Howard has the clout to deliver. Are you still unconvinced that the Muslims need or should want a Labour Prime Minister in Downing Street? Well, let‚s compare Tony Blair with previous Prime Ministers. He is the first Prime Minister to have ever read the Qur‚an, to quote from it and to talk about it. Can anyone imagine Margaret Thatcher or John Major doing the same? Whilst in opposition, Tony Blair had developed a genuine dialogue and relationship with a number of Muslims and Islamic organisations, based not just on getting votes but also on his interest in assisting Muslims achieve their rightful place in British life. After 1997 Muslim groups were welcomed into the Home Office, the Foreign Office and 10 Downing Street. For the first time ever, four Muslim peers were appointed to the Lords and the first Muslim Labour MPs were elected. Even today, no other Party has a Muslim in the Commons. Labour is also the Party that has the largest number of Muslim councillors. We are proud of this achievement, but we have not yet finished. If you ask who are the only Party running Muslims in seriously winnable seats for the next election, the only answer is Labour. The Muslim Council of Britain has been at the forefront of lobbying the Government on issues to help Muslims. Recently Iqbal Sacranie, the General Secretary of the Council, asked Tony Blair to declare that the Government would introduce a new law banning religious discrimination. Two weeks later, in the middle of his speech to the Labour Party Conference, Tony Blair promised that the next Labour Government would ban religious discrimination. It was a major victory for the Muslim community in Britain. But this is not the first and only time that Labour Party has delivered for Muslims. When I was a Home Office Minister in 1997, the MCB lobbied me to introduce not only a new law which would increase sentences for racial violence and harassment but also to recognise the particular problems faced by Muslims. As a result we were able to amend the law to make religion a factor in any violence and harassment. Today, new Crime Bill, announced in the Queens Speech is coming before Parliament to toughen the laws on incitement to religious hatred. This has upset some M.P.`s such as Evan Harris MP, the Liberal Democrat spokesman, who has said he will oppose it because it is unnecessary! Within weeks of coming to power, people will remember that Labour also repealed the appalling Primary Purpose Rule that discriminated against people coming to join their families in Britain, from Pakistan, Bangladesh and from other Muslim countries. This law introduced by the Conservatives caused a great deal of anguish and had broken up families. Labour promised to repeal it and promptly delivered after the election. The new Labour Government was the first British government to give state recognition and funding to Muslim schools. Previously only Christian and Jewish schools had been allowed this opportunity. The Liberal Democrats opposed Muslim schools and Labour had to push legislation through the Commons against their strong opposition. At the same time the Foreign Office adopted a new policy to provide support for the Hajj delegation, sending doctors and administrators to Saudi Arabia to help British Hajjis. We are the only Western government to do so. Thousands of Muslims who travelled to Mecca have benefited from the change. And each year in the Commons there is now an Eid celebration, often attended by the PM, as he did this year. I also remember when the issue arose about Muslims being included in the Remembrance Day ceremonies. Tony Blair was appalled that Muslims were being excluded and changed the protocol. He insisted that at all future civic ceremonies, including for example the commemoration of September 11 at St Paul’s Cathedral, Muslims would have a prominent role. And across a whole range of social issues, on creating jobs, reducing poverty, on welfare reform and housing policy, Muslims have benefited from Labour government policies. Take for example the Sure Start initiative, which financed the new crèche opened at the London Muslim Centre in East London. It provides childcare facilities for the predominantly Muslim women in the whole area, in a place in which they have confidence in leaving their children. In 2000 I took through the Commons the first Race Relations laws in a quarter of a century. Labour wanted to ensure that all public services had an obligation to promote good community relations. The impact of the law will be wide ranging. Some might say these changes are all the result of pressure from within the Labour Party rather than the personal influence of Tony Blair himself. It is certainly true that it is the Labour Party as a whole which has had the support of Muslims; it is the Party that has supported migrant communities and the Welfare State. But Tony Blair’s keen interest in Muslim issues has been a key driver of progress through the last seven years. He was keen to ensure the interests of Muslims were considered and protected when Labour introduced the Minimum Wage, the Working Families Tax Credit and community development strategies. It was also the PM who was personally committed to the intervention in Kosovo to help the Muslims who were being murdered by the Serbs. This was an intervention entirely for humanitarian reasons, opposed by many on the liberal Left of British politics like George Galloway. Many Muslims in Kosovo owe their lives to British intervention. Likewise, British funding of the reconstruction of Bosnia has helped Bosnian Muslims slowly re-build a future. It is Tony Blair who has personally championed the entry of Turkey- a Muslim country into the EU and he has taken a personal interest in dealing with the humanitarian crisis in Darfur. One of the key policies promoted by the Chancellor, Gordon Brown has been development aid, with 33 of the countries receiving British foreign aid being Muslim. Since 1997, the British aid assistance to Bangladesh alone has doubled. You will have noticed I have left out the anti-terrorism legislation out of this balance sheet. There is no denying that this is a difficult issue; so let me tackle it head on. After the Madrid bombing, no one seriously doubts that we face concerns about terrorism but many have concerns about the ways in which anti-terrorism laws are being implemented. I come from an Irish Catholic family brought up in the West Midlands. I remember the aftermath of the Birmingham pub bombings, with the introduction of anti-terrorism laws and internment. The 1970s were a time when understandably fear and anger went through the Irish Catholic community in Britain. Remember the Birmingham Six and the Guildford Four who were Convicted and later acquitted? Yet, despite the fact that problems arose in implementation of these laws we realise now that the anti terrorist laws were always targeted at terrorists and not at all Irish Catholics. So too today, the legislation is targeted at terrorists, not at all Muslims. Today, Ministers are doing the best they can to ensure that the laws are not wrongly used and have publicly reject the notion that these are anti-Muslim laws. Tony Blair has personally and repeatedly made this clear. So, I ask Muslims to look at the balance sheet on the Labour government and Blair as a whole. The balance sheet shows show both positives and negatives. No one is suggesting we can possibly measure the suffering of Iraqi’s since the war, any more than we can forget the countless Iraqis that Saddam himself killed during his long tyranny. It is true that the Prime Minister has disagreed openly with Muslims on removing Saddam and some Muslim may feel betrayed, but, across a range of other vital issues from Kosovo to policies in Britain, the Labour government are trying to deliver an agenda that has shown consideration and respect for Muslims. And it is also important to reflect on the fact that in some seats a vote for the Liberal Democrats or Respect may be an outlet for anger over Iraq, but, in a House of over 600 MPs, it is unlikely to elect more than a handful of the minority party. The real question is who is in Government? What a protest vote could do across the country is to switch votes away from the Labour column and allow the Party that is in second place in most seats to gain a considerable numbers of M.P.`s. That Party is the Conservative Party, not the Liberal Democrats, nor Respect. The truth is that, if you vote Lib Dem or Respect, then you could end up with a Conservative MP and Conservative Government. That is the mathematics of our system of voting, whether people want it or not. Ask yourself what will Michael Howard do for British Muslims? Will his foreign policy aim to help Palestine? Will he promote legislation to protect you from religious hatred and discrimination? Will he create more jobs or support greater equality? Will he give you the choice of sending your children to a faith school? Will he stand up for the right of Muslim women to wear the hijab? Will he really fight for Turkey, a Muslim country, to join the EU? These are not academic questions. Remember, the last thing we want is to vote in anger and repent at leisure as Michael Howard, with a big smile on his face, walks through the door of Number Ten. Tony Blair’s record on Iraq may anger many Muslims but his record is about more than one issue. But the issue is about who rules Britain and across a range of issues the Labour Government has delivered again and again for British Muslims. Labour values equality, compassion and a multi-religious Britain and so in that sense we share the dream of most British Muslims. To create that kind of society, we still have a lot to do if we are given the chance. Mike O‘Brien is the Minister for Energy in the DTI, he is the Labour MP for North Warwickshire.

^ Is there a cartographer in the house?

Originally posted by SmithNwestern: Welcome back Ayoub bro. But tell us what you mean by free speech is it the one you denounce unity and gig up your clan area? Or is it a new one you have learned lately. Saxiib what is my 'clan area' got to do with free speech or Qaybe himself? My 'clan area' starts from Djiouti all the way to Jigjiga and beyond but - unlike some people - you'll never catch me wandering carrying a tusbax whispering: "Sanaag" "Caynaba". I don't know what you guys expected me to say about Qaybe's alleged comments either because I've seen a many TRUE Landers in SOL who hold similar views including Koweyn, Gediid and Lander to name a few. I log in here not only read to Hornafrique's "Duke of Hazard who escaped from Gen Caydiid" stories but some tiny bit of me does care and wants to know about the other side if catch my drift. Joking aside, I believe the "right and real unity" is good but I don't think this is the right time and I just don't see it anytime soon. Don't you think it's absurd to even talk about it when people mis-trust each so much to even leave Nairobi? Mate, this is a battle of hearts and minds. No need to dream too much coz time will tell.. Originally posted by HornAfrique: ^^^His free speech is synonymous with close-minded and tribally induced thinking :rolleyes: You call me 'close-minded' before you even hear what I had to say? Dear oh dear.

Originally posted by Qudhac: wasiirka kabaha, wasiirka injirta, wasiirka qudhaanjada and wasiirka dadka indhaa cas cas are still to be filled looool

^ Horn For your info, I don't consider 'Somalism' as bad as 'atheism', the point I was trying to make to make is; the people who invited Samatar inside a MASJID thought he would only talk about 'Somalism' and not about the dubious aspects of his beliefs. We may disagree on this but, I don't think a Masjid is a ideal place to discuss this sort 'somalism' politics whether people like Samatar are involved or not. Doing wrongs is one thing, doing them in a Masjid is another, don't you think?

Originally posted by SOO MAAL: So Qaybe is extraordinary hero, he wants caadalah fairness and power sharing between north and south, Qaybe is intelligent man; I hope he will keep his peaceful campaign for unity among all Somalis. Two words for you lil boy: warlords + Mbagathi. Hornafrique I'm not a uniform-wearing goon like you. I believe in free speech mate.

Originally posted by Saxardiid: He didn't preach Somaliweyn but he preached working together Somalis in Diaspora despite their backgrounds and I think that was positive message. Since early 1990s Somalis of all views were invited to this mosque for the benefit of the Somali community in UK. The man should not have been given a stage to make declaration of disbelief in a Masjid of all places. He's known for his 'atheism' and 'Somalism', what else did the who let him in expect?

Originally posted by Qudhac: we wish you happiness and prosperity :cool: Cheers mate and wish you the same and more.

Originally posted by Qudhac: we wish you happiness and prosperity :cool: Cheers mate and wish you the same and more.

Originally posted by Qudhac: we wish you happiness and prosperity :cool: Cheers mate and wish you the same and more.

The UNPO is pleased to announce that six new members have been admitted to the Organization: the Oromo, Southern Cameroons, Buffalo River Dene Nation, Maasai, Nahuas del Alto Balsas and Somaliland. The UNPO welcomes these new members and looks forward to their active role within the Organization. unpo.org/news I can't make head or tails of that..

Gen Adde Muse, Col Abdisamad Ali Shire and Col Hasan Farah Jama 'Gerash' discussing matters Derejooyin been ah yaa garbaha loogu daabacaye Diidiga markii laysla galay daab ma soo roganne Kuwii shaarubaha duubi jirey daadshe qalabkiiye Digtii horeba waatay baqaha docaha jiidheene